Sage TXL vs. Superfine Troutbum vs. ???

jaybo41

jaybo41

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I'm looking hard at both of these models and anything else noteworthy of similar caliber. The size I'm looking for is 7ft 4wt with the intent of being used on small streams. Do any of you have experience with either of these models?

One thing I keep hearing is that the TXL really comes alive when paired with the Sage Quiet Taper line...imagine that! ha!

Likes, dislikes, advantages, etc and any other feedback you can share is most appreciated. I've got one of each of these models coming into my local fly shop and am looking forward to casting them both.

Also wondering what reel you've got paired up with your rod.

TIA & tight lines.
 
Jay

I have a Diamondback Standard Trout 7'6" 3/4 that I find to be the cats *** for drys, and a little shot if needed. It aint a stiffie but it's a very nice small stream dry fly rod. Cork seat with embossed rings, very pretty too. I think it went $320 but I got it for $280.

I think Cortland bought Diamondback look it up. They have a pattern to the rod too, kinda like a cross hatch, its a pretty rod that performs well.

I know Quiet Times in Quarryville has them or did, you may want to take a look. If ya don't get one by the Jam we can go back to Treaster or something similar and you can give it a test drive. Only this time we go farther down stream and if Paul comes he gets a GPS transmitter stuck up his arse.
 
Definitely cast them both. The Sage TXL & Orvis Trout Bum are very different rods. The TB is a full flex rod (slow action) and the TXL is a moderate/fast rod (but not super fast). Both are nice rods, so it depends on what you like. As Mo said, there are a lot of rods out there that can do the job, and IMO, there are many moderately priced rods, especially slower rods, that cast and fish well if that is what you’re after. If you are looking for a faster action rod though, they tend to be more expensive. I find a moderate/fast rod perfect for small stream fishing. I would chose the TXL, but if you ask Sal, the king of the small wild trout stream, he would chose his namesake rod, the Trout Bum. Sal likes when they bent to the butt. Good luck on your search.
 
I have the trout bum. Its a fun rod. I enjoy casting it. However, when trying to punch a fly in small places or high sticking, I wish I had a faster rod.

My favorites rod is my 7ft 3wt Scott Fibertouch. Its actually fast action, which helps with tight casts but being glass, has tons of feel and a soft tip. PERFECT small stream rod IMHO.
 
there's cheaper options out there if you want to build one up, I'm looking at the same choices and leaning towards a dan craft (unless i build a bamboo).

http://www.dancraftent.com/category/index.cfm?cid=41

or

http://www.dorber.com/flyrodblanks.html
 
Usually when you go fishing with buddies- they usually dont move the car on ya. hehe-
 
You have to look at the action. You can't compare 2 rods that are apples and oranges. I have an Orvis T3 fast action tip flex. My son has multiple Sage rods, different actions and the same. He said the T3 is sweet, an easy caster and he liked it. It is a fast action tip flex. He took my rod as a back up when he went on a trip and I fished with the first rod I bought and it was a noodle. I had a horrible time. Find the flex action that you want then go compare apples to apples. I love a stiffer fast action tip flex rod. Doesn't suit everyone. I like to nymph, the dry fly guys on this site can tell you what they love to use to float their line the most.
 
Thanks to all that have replied. Two factors have lead me to interest in these rods. First is size/wt. 7ft 4 is what I'm looking for to be used on small streams. Second is the action..they're both different and I want to throw some loops with both action types. My current arsenal is moderate fast, in longer lengths so I'm looking for insight on this size and slow vs. moderate fast for smaller streams. I realize the action on these two is different, maybe I should have clarified that in my initial post.

The kind of information I was hoping to gather was precisely what OhioOutdoorsman and Afish hit upon.

Again, thanks to each of you for your replies and keep the info coming! And if anyone can coax Sal into chiming in, it would be most appreciated :D
 
Have you considered Winston?

In 4 weight the shortest Winston's are the 7.5 foot Biit or WT.

The Biit is a medium action rod. It is modelled after the Winston Traditional, except the Biit is made of Boron while the WT is made of graphite. The Biit protects tippets well and has more power than you think. It is an extremely nice rod.

The WT in 4 weight is a medium-fast action rod. It also protects tippets well and has more power than you think. It too is an extremely nice rod.

I don't find that one rod is better than the other they both just have slightly different feels and one may feel better based on your casting technique.

If for some reason you would consider 3 weight, the WT comes in a 6.5, 7 and 7.5 foot version, all medium action. However, the 3 weights don't fare well in the wind.

I have an 8 foot WT in 3 and 4 weight and a 9 foot WT in 5 weight. These are really fine rods that just cast themselves.

Also, a "medium-fast action" Winston is probably the equivalent of Sage's and Orvis' "medium action."
 
i would also throw an avid. it is a moderate action rod that will round out the different actions to look at. also in a slower action the scott g2 is superb.
 
Well I casted both rods for quite a while and made a decision.

Both rods are beautifully made, the Superfine's components IMHO are a little nicer, although I like a locking reel seat better. Neither of these factored into my decision.

The Superfine definately has a slower action of the two, and has much more of a glass or bamboo type of feel to it. Beautifully made rod

I went with the TXL, I was amazed with this rod upon first cast, it just felt right in my hands. For a small rod, the distance I could get was AMAZING, roll casting was effortless too. The guy at the shop had never cast this rod in the 7ft size and was commenting on how incredible it was. I'm not so sure that I'll need to get that kind of distance for small stream fishing here in PA, but having the versatility was appealing to me. Some streams that I fish have tight brushy banks that I wade through, so having the ability to cast a distance makes for more of a stealth approach.

I could see the need to have both of these beautys in the arsenal, they're both incredible rods. Thanks everyone for your input.
 
Nice! The TXL is the sweetest small stream rod I have ever cast. What weight did you choose?

Good luck with that rod.
 
Thanks Afish!

I got the 7ft 4 weight, can't wait to put it to use. This thing is unbelievably light!

I went in with an open mind before I cast both of these, but I guess I was kind of leaning towards the Superfine. I really thought I'd walk out with my first Orvis rod. Even had a $25 off from Orvis coupon to use but fell in love with the TXL upon first cast.
 
When you find a rod that works like that for you...buy it!

I'm jealous! Ha, but now you can't blame the rod if you don't catch fish!
 
jaybo41,

Sorry I didnt catch this earlier but here are the disadvantages and advantages of full flex rods. THis is just a small sample:

Full flex rods Pros:

Slower casting motion can sometimes spook fish not as much as a fast action rod.

Very accurate in short distance.

Protects light tippets very well.

Can lay a fly very delicately(not that a fast action cant but it is easier to do so with a full flex)

Slow action fly rods are also an excellent fly rod for beginners. The flexibility of the fly rod and the slow line speed allows beginner anglers to have very good control of the fly line, allowing for more accurate casts by inexperienced anglers.

Smaller Fish are Fun to Catch - The flexible nature of the fly rod makes catching even smaller fish a lot of fun. Even a 12 inch trout can seem like a monster on a slow action fly rod.

Full flex rods Cons:

Slow Line Speed - Anglers who need to make long casts will not want to use a slow action fly rod. The slower line speed of these rods prevents the angler - unless they are very experienced - from making real long casts.

Fishing in Windy Conditions - During windy conditions, slow action fly rods can be a real bear to cast.

Versatility - Slow action fly rods are ideal for many situations, but lack the all around versatility that medium action fly rods do. In short, if you can only own one fly rod and want that fly rod to be able to perform well in a wide range of conditions, a medium action fly rod is a better choice.


I will say that the new trout bums are a bit different than the old ones. The old ones were 7' 4wts and the new ones are 7 1/2' 3 wts. The new material they use makes the rod stronger which is good and it is a nicer looking rod. The extra 1/2" makes better casts and make it slightly more versatile. But it is slightly stiffer than the old model,even though it dropped one line wt. Also it is a bit more expensive. I still love it and I probably love it more! :)
I combo mine with the BBS II reel and use the orvis superfine wonderline. Im sure the CFO is a better reel for it but for the price.....well the BBS II is great! I bought Spectorfly the BBS I for his rod and he loves that reel.

Its all a matter of preference. My casting motion is geared towards full flex rods. As others stated, cast it and buy which one you fall in love with, which you did. ;-) That sage is going to treat you well bud, thats a nice rod and you made a good choice. Remember small stream fishing isnt about the rod, its about you ability to sneak up on the trout you are fishing. I know guys that swear by 8 foot fast action rods for small streams. The roll cast farther (which youll do alot of on small streams) and give you power when yanking out of a tree. I know guys that swear by 6 foot rods, saying they are easier to use in tight quarters. Its all in what you like. Check back after you use it for sometime on small streams and tell us what you think. Im betting your still gonna love it ;-)

Again sorry I didnt chime in earlier.
 
Thanks Sal for your standard well written post. That's precisely what kind of information I'd been hoping for, even if it was late. I haven't fished it and could thoretically always return it for the other...which I don't need to do.

I know I made the right choice, both rods while beautiful, have their advantages and disadvantages and after casting both, I went with what felt best to me. The Superfine's action is definately slower, but really the Sage blew me away. Every time I cast it around the lawn in front of the shop, I easily hit every area that I'd targeted. The Superfine, I had to work a little harder, but maybe missed 1 out of maybe 10 casts with it. I know I could get used to it, I can see a place for both of these rods in one's arsenal but I don't fish as many smaller streams as large ones...yet.

I've worked pretty damn hard over the past year and this was a treat to myself for doing so. I'm hoping to have this rod for many many years to come. Thanks again to all for weighing in thoughts and opinions.
 
Your welcome and anytime:)
I love to get a sage 1 wt but convincing the wife is another story ;-)
Glad to treated yourself! whats all that work worth if you cant enjoy it right?
 
Orvis actually changed the name of the whole series to "superfine trout bum" due to the sucess of the old 7ft 4wt model. The new 7ft 4wt is actually a lot quicker than the old.

If you wanted a stiffer 7ft 4wt from orvis, they make a TLS and Helios model, those would be more simular to the TXL.

Congrats on the TXL....sound like the perfect rod to me.
 
OH NO SALLIE!!! SAY IT AINT SO!


Sal Wrote (lower case) / AFISH WROTE (UPPER CASE)

Full flex rods Pros:Slower casting motion can sometimes spook fish not as much as a fast action rod.

NOPE, I’VE READ THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN, YOU CAN’T CONVINCE ME THAT A FRACTION OF A SECOND FASTER ON A SHORT CASE MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL IN SPOOKING FISH.

Very accurate in short distance.

FAST ACTION RODS CAN BE MORE ACCURATE, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE TIGHTER LOOP WITH THE CAST, AND ADD SOME WIND…..NO CONTEST. ALSO A FA ROD WILL GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO SHOOT YOUR FLY INTO TIGHT PLACES WITH A TIGHTER LOOP.

Protects light tippets very well.

I DON’T SEE THAT FROM MY EXPERIENCE ON THE STREAM. PERPHAPS WITH A SUPER FAST ROD LIKE A TCR OR TCX WITH A LIGHT TIPPET, BUT WHY WOULD YOU FISH SUCH A SET-UP ANYWAY. I DON’T OFTEN BREAK OFF A FISH EVEN WITH A 6X OR 7X TIPPET. WITH A FA ROD YOU STILL HAVE CONTROL OF THE PRESSURE YOU EXERT ON A FISH WHEN FIGHTING IT.

Can lay a fly very delicately(not that a fast action cant but it is easier to do so with a full flex)

YOU CAN LAY OUT A FLY VERY DELICATELY WITH A FA ROD. WITH THAT SAGE TXL ROD IT TAKES VERY LITTLE POWER TO CAST A LINE AND LOAD THE ROD. ALSO, AT THE END OF MOST CASTS ALL THE ENERGY OF THE LINE HAS DISSIPATED, AND THE LINE FALLS TO THE WATER THE SAME DESPITE THE ACTION OF ROD. I HAVE CAST OTHER FA RODS THAT ARE LIKE BROOM STICKS, BUT THAT SAGE ROD IS SMOOTH LIKE BUTTER.

Slow action fly rods are also an excellent fly rod for beginners. The flexibility of the fly rod and the slow line speed allows beginner anglers to have very good control of the fly line, allowing for more accurate casts by inexperienced anglers.

I AGREEE THAT A FAST ROD IS NOT THE BEST THING TO LEARN ON. I WOULD RECOMMEND A MEDIUM ACTION ROD FOR A BEGINNER. OFTEN A BEGINNER TENDS TO OVERPOWER A ROD AND A SLOWER ROD WILL NOT TAKE KINDLY TO THAT.

Smaller Fish are Fun to Catch - The flexible nature of the fly rod makes catching even smaller fish a lot of fun. Even a 12 inch trout can seem like a monster on a slow action fly rod.

I HAVE FUN CATCHING ALL SIZED FISH, AND A LITTLE BACKBONE TO MOVE A FISH WHEN NEEDED COMES IN HANDY SOMETIMES.


Full flex rods Cons:Slow Line Speed - Anglers who need to make long casts will not want to use a slow action fly rod. The slower line speed of these rods prevents the angler - unless they are very experienced - from making real long casts.Fishing in Windy Conditions - During windy conditions, slow action fly rods can be a real bear to cast.Versatility - Slow action fly rods are ideal for many situations, but lack the all around versatility that medium action fly rods do. In short, if you can only own one fly rod and want that fly rod to be able to perform well in a wide range of conditions, a medium action fly rod is a better choice. Its all a matter of preference.

My casting motion is geared towards full flex rods. As others stated, cast it and buy which one you fall in love with, which you did. That sage is going to treat you well bud, thats a nice rod and you made a good choice. Remember small stream fishing isnt about the rod, its about you ability to sneak up on the trout you are fishing. I know guys that swear by 8 foot fast action rods for small streams. The roll cast farther (which youll do alot of on small streams) and give you power when yanking out of a tree. I know guys that swear by 6 foot rods, saying they are easier to use in tight quarters. Its all in what you like. Check back after you use it for sometime on small streams and tell us what you think. Im betting your still gonna love it

Again sorry I didnt chime in earlier.


JUST GIVING YOU ANOTHER VIEWPOINT ABOVE. YOU METNIONED YOU CAN STILL TAKE THE ROD BACK. DON’T DO THAT BASED ON WHAT YOU READ! YOU CAN BE SUCCESSFUL AND HAVE FUN USING EITHER TYPE ROD. SAL IS ONE THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED FF YOU WILL FIND ANYWHERE. AND HE CAN CATCH ANY FISH THAT SWIMS WITH HIS NOODLE RODS, AND LAND HIS FLY IN A TEACUP AT 50’ WITHOUT MAKING A RIPPLE! IT’S NOT THE ROD IT’S THE ANGLER.

FURTHERMORE, THE TXL IS A MODERATELY FAST ROD WITH A LIVE TIP – PERFECT FOR THE FISHING YOU PLAN TO DO. BUT AS I SAID EARLIER, AND AS SAL SAID IN THIS POST ABOVE, THE ROD THAT FEELS / CASTS RIGHT FOR YOU IS THE RIGHT ROD.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR NEW ROD!
 
The information exchange keeps flowing, thanks Ohio and Afish!!! I like it, keep the thoughts coming! Thanks guys and gals!

I was actually pretty surprised with the Troutbum rod, or maybe it's that I'm just that amazed with the Sage. The Superfine--new models anyway--are marketed to have a more traditional feel, like glass or cane rods. There really didn't seem to be that much of a difference in the action between the two, at least as far as I could tell.

Definately keeping the Sage, I could tell immediately that was the rod for me. It's funny, that is a little more of fast action, but the sensitivity, accuracy and ability to load the line were amazing. It's almost like it's got the characteristics of both rods melded into one. If you haven't cast one, go try it. I know everyone's got their opinons and thoughts of what they like best, I certainly do.

By no means is there one rod superior to another, but man this little rod impressed the hell out of me--and as I mentioned before, the guy in the fly shop where I picked it up was also blown away.

One thing I have learned through research---but have not validated yet is that this rod fishes much better with the Sage Quiet taper line (imagine that) or the Rio Selective Trout, but always go with double taper. Interesting huh?
 
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