right or wrong

[Stone_Fly]

Here are some numbers posted on the PFBC web site on Big Spring. My question is, was it really 8% of the brook trout fingerlings that were captured?
2007* 7,600 spring stocking captured 81 percent total 8%
I think it was 1%.

 

[Padraic]

Here is a link to the Biologist Report.

Stone_Fly, why do you doubt the reporting?

 

[FarmerDave]

Padraic, I'll take a stab at that.

They stocked 7600 fingerlings, and caught only 81. 81 is only slightly over 1% of 7600 (not 8 percent).

My first thought on this is they only caught about 1 percent, but certainly did not catch all of the fingerlings left in the creek. therefore the 8% is an estimate of survival rate based on 1 percent caught. That is my guess.

On the other hand, the wording is a little messed up if this is the case.

" The specific number of adult and fingerling hatchery reared trout that were stocked into Big Spring Creek and the number that were subsequently collected during sampling are reflected in the table below. Hatchery reared fingerling brook trout survival has been poor with less than 8% of the fingerlings being collected during sampling regardless of whether they were stocked in the fall or spring. The percent survival in 2006 and 2007 was based on approximately a four month period due to the spring plants of fingerlings. The percent survival in 2004, 2005 and 2006 was based on approximately an eleven month period due to fall plants of fingerlings. Adult hatchery reared brook trout survival rates were not determined as these fish were planted into areas where immediate harvest was allowed and with the expectation that recreational anglers will have harvested a majority of these fish prior to the annual fall electrofishing survey"

Note the part in bold. They "collected" slightly less than 1.1 percent of what was stocked. Therefore, the part in bold is not reflected in the table as stated in the first sentence. My guess is that the part in bold is just slightly misstated. Should be 8 percent based on the numbers collected, not 8 percent collected.

 

[troutbert]

The numbers are confusing because they stocked fingerling brookies at different time periods. Also, as has already been noted, they don't get all the fish when electrofishing, so they estimate the total population, and there can be confusion between whether a number refers to the number caught or number estimated.

Changing gears:

How many people noticed that the word "BEAT" on the t-shirt of Padraic's logo is actually pulsing? Or did I just drink too much coffee?

Also, I have a technical question. I would like to save some of these PFBC reports onto my computer, including the charts and photos, because I don't know if the PFBC will always have them on their website.

Does anyone know how that can be done? Can you save it in a particular format that allows you to open the file with a browser?

 

[albatross]

I don't think the report gives enough data to derive the 8% survival estimate. I think they use a statistical sampling technique to estimate the population based on two separate samples. It seems the report only gives the total number of individual fish captured. The actual estimating process would somehow mark the fish captured in the first sample. The fish in the second sample can then be distinguished as marked (captured in the first sample) or unmarked (not captured in the first sample). These three numbers a) # in first sample, b) # marked in second sample, and c) # unmarked in second sample, can be used to derive an estimate of the total population.

 

[albatross]

Troutbert,

Choose File:Save as from your browser's menu while you are on the page you want to save. I saved it to my hard drive as type "Web archive, single file (*.mht)". I was then able to open it with my web browser from the harddrive.

 

[troutbert]

albatross wrote:
Troutbert,

Choose File:Save as from your browser's menu while you are on the page you want to save. I saved it to my hard drive as type "Web archive, single file (*.mht)". I was then able to open it with my web browser from the harddrive.

Thanks Albatross, it worked, even on my ancient Mac G3 300. On the Mac you just go to File - Save As, and you're done. I guess I shoulda thought of that....

 

[tomgamber]

I'm not a mac guy but almost was twice..how do you know where you saved something if after save as you're done?

troutbert wrote:

On the Mac you just go to File - Save As, and you're done.

 

[troutbert]

Tom,
When you hit Save As, the browser brings up a download window, and you can see the download progress, then it says download complete.

I simplified a little bit. The download window allows you to rename the file and choose which folder you want it in. But you don't have to designate a particular file format. The Mac knows.

This is how it works on my old "Classic" Mac, System 8.6 anyway, but this is antique gear and system software. Most people are using system 10 now, which might be a little different. If anyone has a Mac laptop that runs Classic Mac and OSX and they're selling it reasonable, let me know.

Maybe we've drifted off topic....
Looking at the numbers on Big Spring, do you all think it's worth fishing. I fished there a year or two ago and found it tough sledding. Very minimal habitat, I thought. I like to see deep pools and good cover on a stream, but the creek was mostly ankle-deep.

 

[tomgamber]

troutbert wrote:
Tom,
When you hit Save As, the browser brings up a download window, and you can see the download progress, then it says download complete.

I simplified a little bit. The download window allows you to rename the file and choose which folder you want it in. But you don't have to designate a particular file format. The Mac knows.

Ok, then is almost the same...I don't HAVE to change the format of a file..."save as" (as opposed to just "save") just gives me the option along with where and renaming. I use this to dumb down files for upload sometime. I need to get on a mac one day and ust bang around for a while. They can't be that different. If for no other reason than to be able to use Final Cut when I have to.

 

[troutbert]

I agree the diferences probably aren't real big. I'm not very familiar with PCs, though, so I can't say for sure.

One main difference is that people that write viruses etc. usually don't bother doing so for the Mac, so that issue is nearly eliminated.

 

[Chaz]

Oh I think it is worth fishing if you know where the fish are. But it can be really tough if you don't have any royal wulffs in your box. I've had mixed success there, but I like the idea of catching brrokies in spring creeks where they evolved.
As for the population estimate, 8 times as many fish in the estimate Vs. how many captured seems like we ought to call inot question the estimate formula.