Recent Water Temperature on Penn's?

Luke

Luke

Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
250
If anybody was on Penn's Creek this weekend (below Coburn, above Cherry Run) I would really like to know what is the current water temperatures. Reliable sources for this information is more difficult than it should be.
 
I guess I can go with the latest information from TCO Web Site...

Stream Level: Penn's is flowing at 281cfs, average for today is 287 cfs.

Water Temp: high 50's low 60's

Clarity: Slightly off color

 
This matches/approximates observation in a recent report in the Stream Report section.
 
Time of day and the location are helpful with temps. Upper 50's, low 60's as TCO reports is kind of meaningless (and I think low estimates) as I took a temp of 68 at Poe Paddy last Wednesday at 5pm. If those temps were at the mouth of Pine, I'd be more inclined to believe it. I have seen daily temps vary by a minimum of two degrees on a stream and up to ten degrees (I don't know how much they fluctuate on Penns) so a reading of 65 in the morning might be 68-70 at the peak of the water temperature in late afternoon/early evening. Big Poe was 64 and is where I ended spending the bulk of my time. First time on Penns; I think it is worth going back to sometime ;-)

Jack, what fuzzy math are using where 65 is approximately upper 50's, low 60's?
 
On a warm day like today, with air temps into the 80s, with the present lowish flows, Penns probably went over 70F.
 
Why do some streams on the USGS site have current water temps listed like the Yough, and others like Penns, or Spring do not?
Penns has a discharge chart, and a water gauge like the majority of other streams, but would probably benefit others by listing water temps as well instead of going by guesswork.
 
On Monday 8/8 about 200 yards from where Elk comes in it was 65 at 7PM according to my Fishpond thermometer.
 
LetortAngler wrote:
Why do some streams on the USGS site have current water temps listed like the Yough, and others like Penns, or Spring do not?
Penns has a discharge chart, and a water gauge like the majority of other streams, but would probably benefit others by listing water temps as well instead of going by guesswork.

Because they don't have a temperature sensor installed on those gauges. The only measurement some of the gauges have is height of water at that location. The discharge is calculated based on the height. So Penns, for instance, only transmits gauge height; postprocessing based on the stream profile at that location would calculate the discharge. If you'd like temperature on a particular gauge, the USGS would accept your sponsorship of a gauge, I'm sure :)

Might be a good kickstarter campaign for PAFF, to sponsor additional sensors on a few gauges. Other than concerned fisherpeople, there may not be a need for temperature data on a given stream, which may be why the USGS has not added sensors on streams as well.
 
The Houserville Spring creek gauge reported temps up until about, oh 5 years ago. I had those temps "calibrated" to the local streams (after all the weather is about the same). The real time recordings disappeared on the USGS site, but were reported on the NOAA site 4 times a day. Probably good enough. First the real time reporting ended. I followed up and it was a victim of the budget cuts (remember those?). NOAA continued to report them for about a year or more. Suddenly, that disappeared. I followed up, writing both USGS and NOAA. NOAA referred me to USGS and the person at USGS didn't know much but speculated the sensor quit working and was not repaired. There you go.
LJRA looked into installing a temperature probe and turbidity meter at the gauge near spruce creek. Turbity- forget it. The meter is expensive and maintenance was high. The cost of the temperature probe was not bad, I believe about 2000. The big problem was data collection and management. The costs were quite high on a yearly basis if handled through USGS. Surprisingly so. Discussions ensued about other options- not storing the data- this reduced it a bit. Then identifying sponsorship or a regular source of income to pay for it. This didn't work out because sponsorship cannot be recognized on the USGS site. Finally, talk was of remote monitoring and real time streaming on a website (similar to the river cam at green hills) through an internet connection. This was a reasonable option. However, then logistical issues about placement and regular maintenance of the website made this more of an endeavor than the potential benefits. Considering limited time and resources, a compromise was made. The key was understanding temperature swings and identify stressed areas. Temperature data probes were installed at key locations, but they do not record the temps remotely. They must be retrieved and downloaded periodically. Data collection continues.
The idea of remote, real time, monitoring is not dead. All we need is a dedicated person to maintain the site and long-term sponsors. People who are willing to fill these roles can join the conversation and present their ideas on the LJRA forum and/or attend the monthly meetings.
 
Oh, implied but not said- as a post above mentioned, yes USGS will install and maintain probes and real time reporting if paid for. They agreed to that and that's how we know the costs- they provided the numbers. However, don't underestimate the commitment here. pledges of "i'll do it" on a website is nice, but you would have to find a steady source (may be a company that would pledge 5 years worth up front). you cannot rely on promises.
 
^ Thank you for the info.

It appears what may seem like a simple thing is actually both costly and complicated.
 
if any organization is seriously interested, PM me and I can send you information about contacts. A LJRA member initiated this process and obtained information from USGS. I have the email exchanges. I think he reads/posts here occasionally. He might chime in.
FYI in 2013 the price was:
equipment and installation: 3250.00
Annual operation, maintenance (includes full review and publication and longterm storage of data): 3450.00
For a more limited option- displayed on the web, stored for 3 mod and no review: 1,500 a year
As you can see, maintenance was high.
 
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