Ramping up the harvest rate

M

Mike

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If hoarding related supply chain problems with supermarkets continue for another month and anglers are allowed to leave their respective properties, I wonder whether the harvest rate from trout, shad, panfish and other fisheries will be higher than in the past 15-20 yrs. We have always had subsistence fishing in Pa and it has been particularly visible in but I don’t believe unique to urban areas. In some urban fisheries harvest occurs for the anglers’ families and sometimes for the neighborhoods.
 
Mike wrote:
If hoarding related supply chain problems with supermarkets continue for another month and anglers are allowed to leave their respective properties, I wonder whether the harvest rate from trout, shad, panfish and other fisheries will be higher than in the past 15-20 yrs. We have always had subsistence fishing in Pa and it has been particularly visible in but I don’t believe unique to urban areas. In some urban fisheries harvest occurs for the anglers’ families and sometimes for the neighborhoods.

It may happen.

Hopefully they will follow the rules for size and possession limits, but if people need to feed their families, let them harvest and eat their catch.
 
Except they will die of cancer if they exceed the consumption advisories...

To be honest, the PFBC should emphasize those advisories as a precaution, not as a deterrent to harvesting but as a reminder that unfortunately, consuming a lot of fish from PA waters is not without its risks.

https://www.dep.pa.gov/Business/Water/CleanWater/WaterQuality/FishConsumptionAdvisory/Pages/default.aspx

 
Realistically no one is "subsistence fishing". People eat a few fish a year. Or they pack their freezers with stocked trout then throw them out a year later because they are freezer burned. No one is relying on eating fish they catch in PA as a major part of their diet.
 
Mike wrote:
If hoarding related supply chain problems with supermarkets continue for another month and anglers are allowed to leave their respective properties, I wonder whether the harvest rate from trout, shad, panfish and other fisheries will be higher than in the past 15-20 yrs. We have always had subsistence fishing in Pa and it has been particularly visible in but I don’t believe unique to urban areas. In some urban fisheries harvest occurs for the anglers’ families and sometimes for the neighborhoods.

Interesting.

While I think subsistence hunting is more prevalent in PA's rural spaces than subsistence fishing, the fact that urban anglers subsistence fish is a point I had not been aware of.

I'm inclined to think that subsistence fishing in PA will probably not become widespread. With that said, I do recall accounts of subsistence fishing in Michigan's UP during the Great Recession. I think trapping may also have seen an uptick during the Great Recession as well(?).

So who knows?
 
Bamboozle wrote:
Except they will die of cancer if they exceed the consumption advisories...

To be honest, the PFBC should emphasize those advisories as a precaution, not as a deterrent to harvesting but as a reminder that unfortunately, consuming a lot of fish from PA waters is not without its risks.

https://www.dep.pa.gov/Business/Water/CleanWater/WaterQuality/FishConsumptionAdvisory/Pages/default.aspx

Could you specifically point out a few trout waters with advisories?
 
Larkmark, you nailed that one brother.
 
tomgamber wrote:
Bamboozle wrote:
Except they will die of cancer if they exceed the consumption advisories...

To be honest, the PFBC should emphasize those advisories as a precaution, not as a deterrent to harvesting but as a reminder that unfortunately, consuming a lot of fish from PA waters is not without its risks.

https://www.dep.pa.gov/Business/Water/CleanWater/WaterQuality/FishConsumptionAdvisory/Pages/default.aspx

Could you specifically point out a few trout waters with advisories?
Tom:

It's really the whole State of PA that has the "one meal per week" advisory while certain waters have a NO consumption warning.

The summary explains things well and also mentions that same one meal per week thing applies to stocked fish:

http://files.dep.state.pa.us/Water/Drinking%20Water%20and%20Facility%20Regulation/WaterQualityPortalFiles/FishConsumption/FishAdvisory/FINAL-2020-Pa%20Fishing%20Summary-web_12-5-19-FCAs.pdf
 
Lark!
I invite you to interview anglers along the tidal Schuylkill and Delaware Rivers in Philly. It would be an eye-opener. Then you could go to Norristown and have the same discussion with the Corbicula (Asiatic Clam) harvesters in the Schuylkill, followed by a trip to Nockamixon Lake to speak with the snail harvesters.

I suspect that most stocked trout harvesters presently keep fish because they, family members, or friends like to eat them. The fish become supplementary to their diets, replacing other meals.
 
I've seen snail harvesters on Scotts Run Lake as well and even called the local WCO because I wasn't sure it was being done legally...

...which is a whole other issue.
 
tomgamber wrote:
Bamboozle wrote:
Except they will die of cancer if they exceed the consumption advisories...

To be honest, the PFBC should emphasize those advisories as a precaution, not as a deterrent to harvesting but as a reminder that unfortunately, consuming a lot of fish from PA waters is not without its risks.

https://www.dep.pa.gov/Business/Water/CleanWater/WaterQuality/FishConsumptionAdvisory/Pages/default.aspx

Could you specifically point out a few trout waters with advisories?

It's a blanket statement..

Pennsylvania has issued a general, statewide health advisory for recreationally caught sport fish. That advice is that individuals eat no more than one meal (one-half pound) per week of sport fish caught in the state’s waterways. This general advice was issued to protect against eating large amounts of fish that have not been tested or that may contain unidentified contaminants.

I often see the freezer burned fish argument tossed around. Who in their right mind packs a freezer full of anything, and then waits for it to freezer burn so they can throw it out? Do you all scavenge through your neighbors garbage to quantify what volume of stocked trout they are throwing away in March through May? Or do they just bring the whole freezer to the curb and have the garbage man take it away?
 
Mike wrote:
Lark!
I invite you to interview anglers along the tidal Schuylkill and Delaware Rivers in Philly. It would be an eye-opener. Then you could go to Norristown and have the same discussion with the Corbicula (Asiatic Clam) harvesters in the Schuylkill, followed by a trip to Nockamixon Lake to speak with the snail harvesters.

I suspect that most stocked trout harvesters presently keep fish because they, family members, or friends like to eat them. The fish become supplementary to their diets, replacing other meals.


Yes, and Mike knows better than anyone. Most of the posters that doubt there is any subsistence fishing are not from the Philly area.

At 25.7 percent, the poverty rate in Philadelphia is the highest among the nation's 10 largest cities. About 400,000 residents—including roughly 37 percent of the city's children under the age of 18—live below the federal poverty line, which is $19,337 in annual income for an adult living with two children.
 
larkmark wrote:
Realistically no one is "subsistence fishing". People eat a few fish a year. Or they pack their freezers with stocked trout then throw them out a year later because they are freezer burned. No one is relying on eating fish they catch in PA as a major part of their diet.

I don't think you've ever fished in or near a city. There are plenty of people who harvest fish on a daily basis. Definitley not as much in trout streams as bigger rivers or lakes but early in the season it happens in trout stands often.
 
How many meals per week should I be eating from the lower Susquehanna river watershed? And does anyone have any suggestions for preparing Flatheads?
 
See the Summary Booklet of regs. Advisories are in the rear. Lower Susq flatheads are specified.
 
Landmark wrote;

Realistically no one is "subsistence fishing". People eat a few fish a year.

Hmm, I guess you have never fished for steelhead in NE PA streams feeding Lake Erie in October - March. Many, many guys kill there allowed limit of three adult steelhead day after day. I typically fish there 3 - 4 times a season and each time for 3-4 days. I'll see the same local guy killing three fish at least two of the days of my stay. I've asked them and they say "we rope 'em and smoke 'em". They feed their families with them, fish soup, fillet of steelhead, steelhead steaks, steelhead burgers. Then add to that the Eastern Europeans who snag, snatch, and otherwise cheat and keep multiple limits everyday and then feign knowledge of the law and the English language.
 
Gentlemen, don't kid yourselves about subsistence fishing (and hunting). My dad grew up in the anthracite region in a coal mining community (Lattimer village). When I was a kid, his stories about going fishing or hunting just about every weekend made the place sound like paradise. The year began with sucker season on the Susquehanna at Wilkes Barre, then there was crow hunting season, then April 16 rolled around and it was the first day of a respectable fishing season, trout. Bass opened in mid June and continued through the summer. Limits were strictly observed and my dad and his cohort would typically keep one shy of the limit and continue catching and releasing until the end of the day. They would limit out on trout, bass and walleye, plus take the occasional pike or pickerel as caught. Also, he was adept at catching bull frogs by dangling flies in front of them. He said they jump better than rainbow trout. In the heat of summer, it was groundhog season. My dad was particularly fond of eating groundhog and said the meat was very good because they eat mainly clover. Bass and walleye again in September, then came small game: rabbits, grouse, squirrel and the occasional pheasant (generally an escapee from stocked hunting grounds maintained by mine owners). Also, jump shooting ducks along Nescopeck Creek. My dad didn't like hunting deer, but his family gladly accepted venison from neighbors, all of whom hunted. In the dead of winter was snowshoe hare season. The man who taught him how to fish (keeping one shy of the limit until you gut hook one) and hunt was clear that there's no throwing them back in hunting. It's all food and wasting food is a sin. Sounds like paradise to a kid, but as I got older, my dad said while he thoroughly enjoyed fishing and hunting, the trout streams were mainly fished out by the end of May because people needed to put food on the table. He was allowed -- actually encouraged -- to fish and hunt so often because it made for better meals. He got a college degree and left the mining country as soon as he could (late 1950s) because, as he put it, the area was booming before the Great Depression and never really got out of the Depression. I've been in touch with anthracite mining country all my life, and I am keenly aware just how depressed the area is today (and has been for all of my 55 years on this earth). People who live in depressed areas who have a lot of time between work days or spend a lot of time on unemployment in the summertime, spend that time fishing and hunting to put food on the table. It's no joke. Those of us who have steady work are damn lucky to have it. It's easy for me to throw back all the fish I catch, but if my family was living on fatty sausage and canned meat, I'd be killing every trout I caught. And don't kid yourself about it being confined to the urban poor either. It's very much a trait of those of us with heritage in Pennsylvania's portion of Appalachia.

jk
 
larkmark wrote:
Realistically no one is "subsistence fishing". People eat a few fish a year. Or they pack their freezers with stocked trout then throw them out a year later because they are freezer burned. No one is relying on eating fish they catch in PA as a major part of their diet.

I lived in Boca Raton for a few years when I was in middle school. It is a wealthy city in the south Florida sprawl. There were also a lot of immigrants and many with Haitian backgrounds. The Haitians fished the ponds, lakes, and canals and kept a lot of fish. It was easily a huge part of their diet. They also went through lots of people's garbage on garbage days and took things that they thought would be useful to them that the more privelaged were ready to send to the landfill. Yes, subsistence fishing happens.

Fishing down there was awesome, btw. Largemouth bass of good size everywhere, exotic fish that I'd pull in from time to time, huge crappies, alligator gar, oh yes, certainly a different world than the Pennsylvania I was used to.
 
I stand corrected!
I do recall seeing a group of guys, I think Russian, catching carp and keeping them they said they make fish balls or cakes out of them. Also some Mexicans or South Americans were coming off the river with large burlap bags packed full of every kind of fish, large and small and crayfish. And then below Conowingo I always gave my big Flatheads to Asian guys who loved them. I have eaten Flatheads and thought they were preferable to Channel cats. I certainly can't imagine making the fish I catch a big part of my diet because the waters around here are very polluted. We do eat quite a bit of wild game though.
 
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