Question on Tools for Rod Building

[MD_Gene]

I am going to take a rod building class in January. I was wondering it an auto rotating machine was an important tool to have. I have a motor which I use to dry epoxy flies. I was going to create an attachment that would hold the rod blank so I could rotate it to wrap the threads. Any thoughts how how important it is. Thanks in advance.

 

[Fishidiot]

I think it is important, esp if you are using slow drying epoxies or finish.
In the past, I just used a cardboard box with notches and manually turned the blank every few seconds and then minutes as it dried. This worked okay but produced some lumps. Keep in mind, my standard for finished rod appearance is low. If you really want good looking wraps, a turning device is almost essential.

 

[gfen]

For drying the finish? I've had some lumpy crap finishes, but it wasn't from lack of turning. Just do quarter turns every five minutes or so for an hour or so.

For putting the thread on? Take your time, watch what you're doing, and use size A thread and you'll be able to see your mistakes.

I don't think a wrapping machine is very important at all; however if I had the money/time, I wouldn't say no to one.

 

[Chaz]

Yes you need the rod turner, you may be able to find instructions on making your own using a clock motor. It's probably the most important tool to have. the stand that comes with the turner is also used for wrapping the thread over the guides and sanding the grip.

 

[PennKev]

Chaz wrote:
Yes you need the rod turner, you may be able to find instructions on making your own using a clock motor. It's probably the most important tool to have. the stand that comes with the turner is also used for wrapping the thread over the guides and sanding the grip.

Not true.

You do not need a turning motor to get a nice finish on a rod. If you are not getting a good finish by the turnng the rod by hand in regular intervals, you are doing it wrong. Either waiting too long between turns or using too much finish on your wraps.

Is a turning motor nice to have? Yes. Does it garuntee a nice finish? No. It will help if you use too much finish though.

It sounds like the OP already has a motor that could easily be rigged up to turn a rod. I say go this route and move on. Nothing more is needed.

If you apply your finish properly the difference between a rod that dries on a turner and one that is turned by hand is the amount of time the builder needs to spend babysitting it while it dries.


Kev

 

[troutfanatic]

I agree with above comments. I have a drying motor. It is a cheap one. I think I paid 39.99 for it. In the end, it doesn't make a huge difference on coating wraps. Just go light on finish, go slow (sort of) and watch for bubbles. Make nice flush cuts on your tag ends and lumps are mitigated. Since you have a motor, making a gig to hold the rod but should be easy. Do have any idea what the rpm rate is?

Maybe, if you are putting a finish on the whole rod blank, a motor might be useful. I have coated rods with Trodak U40. a slow turn and a light coat finishes nice and generally streak free.

As for power wrappers? I tried one at a rodbuilding class. I don't build enough to buy one. I did one rod in 2014. I have 2 planned for 2015.

when hand wrapping, I do a few test wraps to work out my stupidity, then a cut them away. Waste of thread? Yeah, but better that then a waste of time.

Not sure how elaborate a class you are attending, but there are plenty of websites and videos on basic builds.

 

[Chaz]

So both of you confirmed that he needs to turn the rod with a motor to get the best results. Right? I may have said it differently than you, but it has the same meaning.

 

[PennKev]

Chaz wrote:
So both of you confirmed that he needs to turn the rod with a motor to get the best results. Right? I may have said it differently than you, but it has the same meaning.

No.

We are saying if you have a motor, use it. If you do not have a motor, good results can be had turning by hand.

The point is, you said it is the most important tool. It is not. It is a tool that makes the job less labor intensive, but it is not needed. Those of us who believe this to be true have said so. IMO, razor blades and denatured or isopropyl alcohol are much more important rod building tools/supplies.

How was it that hard to understand?

 

[MD_Gene]

Now here's a newbie question: is the rotating motor used to wrap the tread or just to put the resin on?

 

[troutfanatic]

what he said.

 

[PennKev]

MD_Gene wrote:
Now here's a newbie question: is the rotating motor used to wrap the tread or just to put the resin on?

A first timer will probably have much better results wrapping or applying finishing without power equipment.

Also, the drying motors and wrapping machines are not necessarily the same machines. Some wrapping machines can be used for wrapping, applying finish, and drying. However, drying motors usually don't have the speed or power for thread wrapping.

There are some tutorials out there on the web that show rods being built with nothing much more than an old cardboard box as a stand, razor blades, and a heavy book to provide thread tension.

After several dozen rods, my building kit is pretty similiar except I don't need the box anymore.

I was just having a conversation with another board member the other day about what is needed to produce rods in volume. Once you get beyond building a rod or two for yourself or friends, the fancy gear becomes important to make things more efficient. But it is not important for getting good results for one or two rods.

The most important tools are your patience and attention to detail.

Kev

P.s. the internet has such a volume of info on rod building. Anything you can possibly have questions about is answered via Goole searches and YouTube and such.

 

[bikerfish]

I've seen some builders wrap guides by just holding the blank in their hands, I haven't tried that yet, but just might on a future rod.
I've built dozens of rods, I use a homemade wrapping jog with adjustable thread holders so I can position the thread bobbins exactly where I need them, I also move the rod back and forth in the jig of course, but by making the bobbins adjustable, I can more easily get the proper placement for the thread.
I've never used a drying motor, when I used epoxy finishes, I simply do 1/4 turns every 15 minutes, and using spar varnish is easy, many thin coats, I simply hang the rod vertically for the finish to cure.
Have fun with it Gene, it's great to take out something you made and catch a fish with it!

 

[troutfanatic]

Mudhole runs clinics and they have tutorials on their website.
http://www.mudhole.com/Videos

Flyrod specific here:
http://www.flyrodcrafters.com/servlet/Page?template=approdbuilding101

This guy does a decent tutorial as he teaches his daughter to build. I don't agree with reaming cork with a drill though.
http://howtobuildaflyrod.com/

 

[PennKev]

troutfanatic wrote:

This guy does a decent tutorial as he teaches his daughter to build. I don't agree with reaming cork with a drill though.
http://howtobuildaflyrod.com/

Yeah... Sheeesh. Not sure the risk of screwing up a grip is worth the few minutes saved.

Rat-tail files already do work on cork without the aid of electricity.

 

[MKern]

I personally don't like the motor controlled rod wrapping machines. I prefer to wrap the rod by hand and feel what's happening with the thread.

Drying the finish is a completely different story. I only use a turning motor to dry the finish. Usually I put the rod in and walk away and check up to make sure nothing is going wrong about every 15 or 20 minutes. Then after a couple hours I go to sleep and in the morning it's done.

 

[FrequentTyer]

For wrapping both bamboo and graphite, an old Thompson rod wrapping vise like the picture below is the only tool I use. It tensions the thread and I turn the rod in my hand giving perfect control on where each wrap lands. For applying epoxy or varnish to the wraps, and for curing, I built a drying motor from spare parts in about an hour for less than $30. Yes you can do without it. You can also tie flys without a bobbin.

 

[bikerfish]

Ive never seen a rod being wrapped with a motorized rod turner, I think it would be tough to keep the thread tension exactly where you want it, which I think varies with the guide location on the rod, I know I use a little less tension on the tip section, but on the butt section I can use a little more.
I don't think it would save any time, with a little practice, it only takes a few seconds to wrap a guide by hand.

 

[Chaz]

Let me take a different tack, wrap the thread manually, but you should use the jig or wrapping stand whatever you wish to call it. It will take some time to wrap the guides, so don't hurry.
Once the rod is wrapped it's still better to use a motorized stand for putting on the coating. Once the coating is on you walk away for several hours. Put on a thinned first coat so it soaks into the wraps, then on subsequent coats, maybe 2 you can build it up. You may only need 2 coats.

 

[Fishwagen]

A drying motor/rod turner is a nice tool to have but not necessary. I like the convenience of not getting distracted when turning the rod in intervals. Put it in, turn it on and check on it when it's done.

Having a good wrapping jig/cradle is one of the best tools to have. One that is comfortable to use, adjustable and stable makes a big difference IMO. I bought one commercially and ending up building one out of wood scraps I had lying around. The scrap wood one cost me nothing and works much better.

I still use bobbins for my thread. I can feel the wrap better getting tensions right and I suppose it's just something you get used to. I use a old Milwaukee drill and a home made jig to turn cork.

Some of the power wrappers are cool as are the commercially available tools. I am a tool nut and maybe one day. However, I have seen the most beautiful stunning rods created by "craftsmen" who use very basic tools you probably already have.

In the end...it's patience and attention to detail that makes the difference. Practice on a old rod to get your techniques to the level you want. And don't be afraid to screw up...we all make a few mistakes that usually only we notice. Everybody else won't.

But one other word of warning...this is just another addiction! I agree w "biker"...nothing better than catching one on a rod you built. My shop is full of stuff I plan on working on thru the winter as my fishing days are less frequent.

Fish

 

[TimB]

Hi Gene,

I've built dozens of rods of the years and don't have any motorized equipment. You just need something to add some tension to the thread while wrapping. I use a rod wrapping stand with a spring tensioner, but you can get the same effect with putting the spool of thread in a shot glass and placing a heavy book on top of the thread to keep it tight. Cut a couple "v" wedges in a cardboard box as a jig to hold the blank & put the thread & book in the box. I built a few rods that way before buying a stand.

Turning the rod a quarter turn every few minutes after applying an epoxy finish works very well. The most commonly used finishes are self leveling.

I would wait until your class is complete to see if there are tools that you really think you'll need if you continue to build. Good luck