Question on double nymph rig.

[Opie610]

I want to try fishing a double nymph rig this weekend with a caddis emerger and a caddis larva. I have tied both flies with and without beads. What I don't know is how to orient the flies. I plan to tie the trailer fly to the hook bend of the lead fly. But not sure whether to use beadhead on lead or trail fly. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Opie

 

[bigjohn58]

If you are double nymphing under the surface I'd use a blood knot and leave the one tag end long and tie off of that for your upper nymph. If using one at the surface and one under I'd tie off the end. I sometimes use a 3 nymph rig with the furthest up my line tied off a blood knot, and the 3rd off the bend of the second one.

 

[Maurice]

^^This is what I do too....

For double nymphs or a couple of wets I Tie a three ft tippet on using a surgeons knot (instead of blood) and leave a big tag, usually on the order of 6". And 4-5X is as low as I go too. THen you can put some shot near the anchor fly or use a bead head so long as its not up where the upper fly can catch on it easily.

If you were nymphing and decide you want to add a second fly, just tie an improved clinch above the tippet know and slide it down to the know. Keep all your knots wet when tying and sliding so you don't weaken the line. Use a X higher for your upper fly (if your nymph tippet is 5X, use 4X for the upper fly) and it will see less tangles. Don't do alot of false casting to reduce tangles.

I find that I foul hook fish if I tie off the bend...and usually in the belly where it can be lethal.

 

[McSneek]

I just tie 8" - 10" of tippet off the bend of the lead fly's hook. I do foul hook fish this way on occassion. Sometimes I think it's a factor of how long the tippet is to the second fly. I usually go with a larger, weighted fly like a hare's ear or stonefly first and then something smaller like a pheasant tail or caddis pupa as a trailer. Both could be bead heads or not. Just depends on what catches my eye when I look in the box.

 

[Luke]

I use the same method as McSneek, maybe it is just a Lancaster County thing ;-)

I have experimented with droppers off the tag ends of blood knots and surgeons knots. The blood knot leads to less tangling as the tag end is at a better 90 degree angle to the main run of tippet. However, I can tie a surgeons knot in about 5% of the time of a blood knot, so it is almost always surgeons for me. I fish Penns Creek a lot and wen I am fishing nymphs correctly there, there is a high likelyhood to lose flies on the bottom (and sometimes tree branches when I am being stupid).

The bottom line is that for me is that it just takes too much time to redo a double rig where a blood knot or surgeons knot is required. If the fish are feeding than I want to get flies back on and get to fishing. So, it is a simple 10" dropper of the shank of the first hook for me. I usually fish a bigger fly up top and a smaller one below with any split shot added about 3 to 4 inches above the top fly.

 

[pcray1231]

Generally I put the heavier nymph first (meaning closer to the rod tip), but I vary that depending on what I want to do.

When doing it right, I use the blood knot with a long tag. Make sure you put the fly on a fairly short, stiff pc of tippet, always the stiffer of the two. It reduces tangles, and prevents the line from interfering with hook sets, plus gives the fly a more natural movement I think.

When going quick, I sometimes just tie the tippet to the hook bend.

And when utilizing a dry-dropper, I tend to tie the dropper to the EYE of the dry.

 

[giantsjim]

Pat, why the eye and not the bend for your dry dropper rig? I have a few thoughts on the reasons, but wanted your insight.
Thanks, Jim.

 

[McSneek]

pcray1231 wrote:

When doing it right, I use the blood knot with a long tag.

Who determined that is the "right" way to do it?

 

[pcray1231]

The main one is effectiveness.

1. I have slightly less of a problem with the dropper pulling the dry under. I think this is because your classic catskill style dry has the buoyant part on front, and the part that soaks up water on the back. Pull the back down and you start soaking the fly. Pull the front down (and back up) and you have to overcome that buoyancy before even beginning to soak the fly.

2. In most situations where I'm using a dry dropper, the dry stands a considerable chance of catching fish (else I'd just use an indicator). Having the hook bend free improves my hook rate considerably (this is true underneath as well, but the tying to the hook is just lazy and essentially admitting the first fly is merely a shot that stands a small chance of hooking something).

3. It is easier to remove the dropper. When I tie to the hook, I always manage to "wrap" the dry, or else wrap the leader before the dry. Hooked to the eye, I don't have that problem as much.

 

[pcray1231]

Who determined that is the "right" way to do it?

I'm not claiming it to be universally right. I'm claiming that I, personally, have found it the most effective method, but not the quickest.

Hence, when I want to do it "right" (best for me) or be lazy (quickest for me).

 

[Chaz]

Here's what I do, #1 I don't weight the nymphs I weight the line, I've got more control of the nymphs that way, plus it's much easier to get the split shot off the bottom than a hook. #2 using 2 nymphs that are weight will cause all kinds of knots to form in the tippet. #3 The nymphs float near the bottom or anyway in the column when they are not weighted. #4 I always use 2 different flies when fishing 2 nymphs, not 2 life stages of the same fly. Something like using an attractor with a nymph tied off the eye of the dry fly.
Lastly, I use a long tag end off the dropper to tie the point fly on using an improved clinch knot, cause the strength of the blood knot is pretty low and I can't tie the correctly anyway.
Of course take this with a grain of salt, because I've only recently been successful with nymphs.

 

[mikesl]

I use the suegeon's knot / long tag for dry dropper and double nymph rigs

But must admit the dry gets tangled a fair but, and this is mostly for when I use the dry as a "less spooky indicator"

When using surgeons's knot like this, Tying an overhand knot with the tag end can make it exit the main line at 90 degrees, better for tangle avoidance

Original tip came from a board member here of course

 

[lv2nymph]

I tie my two fly rig off of a tippet ring, one is ten inches long. The other is 18"-24" long both tied off the same tippet ring. When you need to change one of the droppers simply snip off and retire an appropriate length back on. You can put the heavier fly on the short tippet and the lighter one will drift a little higher than the heavy one. You can put the lighter one on the short line and the heavy one on the longer tippet. In this manner you are fishing two to three different water columns throughout the drift. You can change up the lengths as water conditions dictate. It's best not to exceed ten inches on the short dropper length to avoid the two twisting around each other. Sometimes in very fast hard water you just can't avoid it and a single nymph very heavily weighted might be better. When nymphing in times of an emergence the lighter fly on top can be quite effective. The important thing is pay attention to what your rig is doing through the drift with the water conditions you are currently fishing and when something isn't working think of what you need to change to get into fish. No one rig will nymph best through an entire days nymphing as water conditions will change with the stream as you go along.

 

[HopBack]

2. In most situations where I'm using a dry dropper, the dry stands a considerable chance of catching fish (else I'd just use an indicator). Having the hook bend free improves my hook rate considerably (this is true underneath as well, but the tying to the hook is just lazy and essentially admitting the first fly is merely a shot that stands a small chance of hooking something).

I use a dry dropper with a single bead head nymph tied to the bend of the hook in most situations. I like it because I can quickly change the depth as needed. I have had zero issues with hook ups on the dry fly. A sharp hook with a wide gap works well for me and stays relatively tangle free. That being said its a terrible setup for the 2 nymph approach and will cause more trouble then it's worth. If I want to fish a fast run I cut the whole rig at the dry fly and tie on a nymph without an indi and just tight line. Then when I want to switch back I just ret-tie the dry dropper. More time spent fishing vs tying knots equals more fish or chance to catch fish.

 

[lv2nymph]

Opie610 wrote:
I want to try fishing a double nymph rig this weekend with a caddis emerger and a caddis larva. I have tied both flies with and without beads. What I don't know is how to orient the flies. I plan to tie the trailer fly to the hook bend of the lead fly. But not sure whether to use beadhead on lead or trail fly. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Opie

Put the caddis larva weighted on the bottom and the emerger above no weight or lightly weighted water depending. At the end of the drift let it turn and straighten out this will bring your flies to the top and imitate an emerging insect nicely

 

[Opie610]

Many thanks to all who replied. A lot of great info to ponder and try. Can't wait until Friday to get out and try double nymphin.

 

[mike_richardson]

I just tie off of the bend of the hook. Most of the time I only have 2-3 hours to fish, so I would rather spend more time with my fly in the water, than fighting tying knots. Might not catch as many fish but I catch enough to keep me happy. Haven't really set up anything the other way as talked about.