Proposal - waters downstream of STW to be open to fishing

[salmonoid]

It looks like the PFBC is trying to add some needed clarity to what is open to trout fishing year round. At their upcoming meeting, the commissioners will vote on adding section info to the summary regs and essentially opening up everything outside of the STW (including downstream sections) to year round angling. Just reading the amended general rule for Extended Trout Season makes it clear as mud and seems contradictory to the discussion; it seems they are including downstream sections in the Extended Trout Season (by adding the language to the general rule). However, the discussion talks about protecting downstream sections for wild trout, which I guess means explicitly stating you can creel three trout a day? But they also talk about excluding downstream sections in the discussion, so in their attempt to simplify, they've made it even more confusing (for me anyway). Basically, the last few sentences of the discussion don't jive with the proposed general rule change.

D. Amendment to 58 Pa. Code § 65.26 (Extended Trout Season). Commentary: In the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission’s (Commission) Strategic Plan for the Management of Trout Fisheries in Pennsylvania 2020-2024, staff identified the Stocked Trout Waters (STW) program as one of the Commission’s most popular programs. As such, the Commission must work to improve stocked trout stream angling opportunities and experiences to best meet the preferences of anglers. Most stocked trout streams are not stocked throughout their entire length and many of these streams also have sections that are managed for wild trout. Adding the section limits for stocked trout streams to the Commission’s Fishing Summary/Boating Handbook (Handbook) will: 1) clearly identify where stocking occurs to increase angler participation, especially for anglers unfamiliar with a stream; 2) provide increased protection to the stream sections managed for wild trout during the extended season; 3) increase angling opportunities for wild trout in sections that are open to year-round fishing; 4) increase angling opportunities downstream of STW sections; and 5) simplify regulations. Fishing in Stocked Trout Waters (58 Pa. Code § 63.3) states that waters stocked with adult trout by the Commission must be published in the Handbook. However, most STWs listed in the Handbook do not detail the specific stream section that is stocked, but rather list only the stream name. This lack of detail provides inadequate information to anglers fishing these waters. Additionally, STW limits are defined on the Commission’s website and the FishBoatPA mobile application. Defining the limits in the Handbook would provide consistent STW information for anglers who use various sources to identify where to fish for stocked trout. In addition to defining the stocked stream section limits in the Handbook, an amendment to 58 Pa. Code § 65.26 (Extended Trout Season) is necessary to improve trout stream angling opportunities and experiences to best meet the preferences of anglers while providing additional protection to wild trout during the extended season. An amendment to the Extended Trout Season regulation would provide increased protection and additional angling opportunities in stream sections managed for wild trout that are downstream from STWs. Currently, STWs and all waters downstream from STWs have a creel limit of three trout per day from the day after Labor Day until the last day of February and are closed to fishing from March 1st until 8 a.m. on the opening day of trout season. By amending the Extended Trout Season regulation to exclude all waters downstream of a STW, thousands of additional stream miles would be opened to fishing on a year-round basis during the current closed season and harvest of trout would be prohibited during the extended season downstream from STWs. Staff propose that 58 Pa. Code § 65.26 be amended as follows:

§ 65.26. Extended Trout Season.
(a) General rule. – The extended trout season is in effect from the day after Labor Day until the last day of February of the following year on stocked trout waters[and all waters downstream of stocked trout waters]. The creel limit of three trout per day and a minimum size limit of 7 inches apply during this season [(except Class A wild trout streams where the creel limit is 0 and areas with special regulations.)].

Briefer: David C. Nihart, Chief, Division of Fisheries Management

Recommendation: Staff recommend the Commission approve the publication of a notice of proposed rulemaking containing the amendments described in the Commentary. If approved on final rulemaking, the amendment will go into effect January 1, 2022.

 

[Dave_W]

Good grief. . .

 

[SlowMutants]

Where you see brackets in the initial post indicates they are removing the language from the rule.

In this case they are removing [and all waters downstream of stocked trout waters] and [(except Class A wild trout streams where the creel limit is 0 and areas with special regulations.)] from the extended trout season definition. Hence the new extended trout season only applies to stocked trout waters.

You can see this is the case with the trophy trout language where they are changing from 14 inches and two trout to 18 inches an one trout

(3)?Minimum size is [14] 18 inches, caught on, or in possession on, the waters under regulation.

(4)?The daily creel limit is: [two trout-combined species] one trout except for the period from the day after Labor Day to 8 a.m. of the first Saturday after April 11 of the following year, when trout may not be killed or had in possession.

 

[PennKev]

SlowMutants wrote:
Where you see brackets in the initial post indicates they are removing the language from the rule.

In this case they are removing [and all waters downstream of stocked trout waters] and [(except Class A wild trout streams where the creel limit is 0 and areas with special regulations.)] from the extended trout season definition. Hence the new extended trout season only applies to stocked trout waters.

You can see this is the case with the trophy trout language where they are changing from 14 inches and two trout to 18 inches an one trout

(3)?Minimum size is [14] 18 inches, caught on, or in possession on, the waters under regulation.

(4)?The daily creel limit is: [two trout-combined species] one trout except for the period from the day after Labor Day to 8 a.m. of the first Saturday after April 11 of the following year, when trout may not be killed or had in possession.

Good thing at least one of us had the secret club's decoder ring.

 

[salmonoid]

SlowMutants wrote:
Where you see brackets in the initial post indicates they are removing the language from the rule.

In this case they are removing [and all waters downstream of stocked trout waters] and [(except Class A wild trout streams where the creel limit is 0 and areas with special regulations.)] from the extended trout season definition. Hence the new extended trout season only applies to stocked trout waters.

You can see this is the case with the trophy trout language where they are changing from 14 inches and two trout to 18 inches an one trout

(3)?Minimum size is [14] 18 inches, caught on, or in possession on, the waters under regulation.

(4)?The daily creel limit is: [two trout-combined species] one trout except for the period from the day after Labor Day to 8 a.m. of the first Saturday after April 11 of the following year, when trout may not be killed or had in possession.

That's pretty idiotic and doesn't follow standard law publication. I've always seen overstrike used when items are removed legislation or regulation. Bold or underlined means they are added. But thanks for clearing it up. Leave it to PFBC to do things backwards at times..

 

[Baron]

Their language is so nuanced and confusing. I'll need a Lawyer to feel safe fishing these areas.

 

[Mike]

I read it this way... If passed you may legally fish anywhere you want during the extended season but you may only harvest from within spring and fall stocked trout sections, except spring stocked class A’s. (My note: If you harvest a fish in the lower end of a stocked section, you had better not carry it with you as you continue to fish if your fishing takes you below the lower section limit. You will need to know the section limits and be aware of where you are on the stream if you are in possession of a harvested fish). Additionally, during the closed season on stocked trout waters, traditionally March and early April, you could continue to legally fish C&R downstream from the stocked sections.

 

[nomad_archer]

They sure don't abide by the K.I.S.S. principle

 

[silverfox]

The language in the proposal should have the removed section struck out to make it clearer what they're proposing.

To clarify further, what this means is that in the extended season, the ONLY waters where the harvest of trout is permitted will be specifically identified STW waters identified by upper/lower limits. All waters downstream of STW will be C&R only for trout in the extended season.

Again, this is to protect large migratory brown trout (an invasive species) with no documented evidence of the need for such regulations. In most cases, to make a case for reg changes, surveys are carried out to prove that C&R is warranted. In this case, they appear to be suggesting a C&R reg with no data to back it up.

I'd like to see data that proves that harvest is negatively impacting large migratory brown trout in these waters. So far there is no evidence that the change is warranted and I'd argue there likely is no real reason for the change other than a poorly worded petition and some folks who really like brown trout and want more protections for them. Odd how it works for some but not others.

 

[blitzinstripes]

Continuing to label brown trout as an invasive species after 150 years, is probably going to put you solidly in the minority opinion.

 

[silverfox]

blitzinstripes wrote:
Continuing to label brown trout as an invasive species after 150 years, is probably going to put you solidly in the minority opinion.

That classification is scientifically backed. The popularity of a fact doesn't change reality.

Just so we're on the same page, "An invasive species is an organism that causes ecological or economic harm in a new environment where it is not native". Salmo trutta has been scientifically proven to be deleterious to native species. Ergo, invasive.

The IUCN even lists Salmo trutta in the top 100 worst invasive species.
http://www.iucngisd.org/gisd/100_worst.php

 

[HopBack]

That classification is scientifically backed. The popularity of a fact doesn't change reality.

Fact: Smallmouth Bass were never native to the Susquehanna
Rivershed.



Reality: Non one cares!!!