Proposal to Extend Pine Creek DHALO (Slate Run Area) - Video and Comments

[Fishidiot]

The PFBC is currently considering (and taking public comments) regarding a possibility of extending the Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures (DHALO) section on Pine Creek that starts at the town of Slate Run 1.6 miles further downstream. The current length is slightly over a mile so this would roughly double the DHALO section if approved. If you're not familiar with this area, the current DHALO section (and the one further upstream) are fairly new having been established a few years ago. Since then, this particular section has seen dramatically increased fishing pressure. I was there last week and can attest that many more anglers are using this reg section (I saw only one angler outside the reg water as I drove back down the valley, a distance of many miles). The PFBC's own surveys reveal that this section now receives about four times the fishing pressure. To the PFBC's credit, they are paying attention to this situation and recognize the great increase in angler use and economic value that this specially regulated section currently provides.

Here is a video explaining the situation and proposal. The comments are mainly by Jason Detar, the area AFM with a cameo by Arway. Some of the comments that follow are long winded and predictable ("kids can't fish" etc.) but are worth listening to as they cover both points of view.

Video Link

Anyway, I personally support such an extension as I suspect many of you do. If you too support extending this excellent DHALO section (or whatever your personal views are)...please send your comments to the PFBC. Do be aware that the comments window closes in early July and the proposal will go before the commissioners at the July 15th meeting. Here's where you can access the comments section:

Comments Form

 

[Mike]

I may comment as an angler and suggest that this DH area and others that get too warm early in spring or during the summer be opened to harvest on Memorial Day weekend rather than waiting until June 15. Such situations result in high densities of trout either dying or congregating in limited refuge areas, often in densities that are unsustainable for the summer. A longer DH area will possibly mean even greater numbers of fish being stocked that wind up in this situation.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

This is a great idea. I saw this and forgot to leave mine.
Just sent mine off. Thank you so much

 

[MattBoyer]

The ledges over the long hole immediately below Naval run (approximately 100 yard below the lower terminus of the DHALO) is one of the few places anywhere that I still fish bait. I grew up camping in the campground across the creek and have some of my most fond memories of my life sitting on that cliff actively drifting worms with 4 lb test and no weight. I caught my largest brown ever out of this hole. I have no scientific reason for them not to make this change, but it would make me rather sad. If there is a benefit for the greater good, I would be all for it, but in my opinion this has been one of the most productive sections in mid to lower Pine 30 years before special regs were even considered, so I just don't get it.

Boyer

 

[salmonoid]

I don't get it either. Why do anglers feel the need to concentrate themselves 4x denser than anglers on the rest of the stream to fish for mostly stocked trout, which are probably about the same density in the other 80+ miles of stream? Not to mention the fact that many of those miles are already open to fishing year round. Why add another layer of regulations to another mile of stream? What am I missing in terms of benefits that such a designation would add that already isn't there? Excluding the bait crowd is not a benefit in my book.

 

[salmonoid]

21:00 minutes or so of the video the driving force comes through. The Lower Pine Brown Trout Club wants this extension (as I intepret it) so that the state will further protect their private trout stocking and they are the group that had the original proposal (which also included a slot limit). PFBC notes that the warm water is the trump card over the slot limit, if they would have considered that option.

Arway states that the Commission uses science to make decisions, but concedes that in this case, this decision will not be based on biological science (because the fish die when it warms), but social science.

On a quasi-related note, what are the proposed changes for Delayed Harvest areas that are intimated as being proposed in 2016?

 

[BradFromPotter]

Could this help Slate Run Tackle Shop's fly shop business?

 

[Chaz]

Mike wrote:
I may comment as an angler and suggest that this DH area and others that get too warm early in spring or during the summer be opened to harvest on Memorial Day weekend rather than waiting until June 15. Such situations result in high densities of trout either dying or congregating in limited refuge areas, often in densities that are unsustainable for the summer. A longer DH area will possibly mean even greater numbers of fish being stocked that wind up in this situation.

But the point is the fish hold there through the summer.

 

[Mike]

Chaz,
The point is that such streams are not fully meeting the original purpose of the program and, in fact, are violating the original guidance in establishing those waters. Specifically, they were to stay cool until July 1 so that they could provide an attractive fishery to those who desired to harvest some fish even with a reduced creel limit. Harvest is not implied; it is part of the program's title. Otherwise, there would have been no reason to implement the program, as the C&R program would have sufficed. Stocked trout do not bite well in warm water, so warm streams provide a sub-par fishing experience for those who desire to harvest.

I will further add that this program originated in the SE and SW as a practical answer to the desire for more C&R waters over stocked trout.
High catch rates were an objective and those were to be achieved with high stocking rates and C&R, but it was recognized that these fish should be removed in large part from those streams before they reached temps that were stressful for the trout in regions where stocked trout waters generally warm sooner. The fact is that there was never an opening day atmosphere come June 15 as some individuals feared and if anything, the numbers of anglers showing up to harvest were underwhelming. Still, the point was that the water was to be cool enough for those anglers to have a good time when they did show up, and depending upon the particular stream, various amounts of harvest occurred (but I don't recall that harvest was high on any).


It is with the temperature problem in mind and the watering down of the original standards by adding earlier warming streams to the program, probably due to the program's popularity, that I will be suggesting as an angler that the allowable harvest date also be moved forward by two weeks to Memorial Day weekend. Such a change in the program would be fair, as it would then be commensurate with the implied change in the temperature guidance that has already taken place.

 

[Swattie87]

Salmonoid figured it out in post #6 IMO. To this group's credit they stock some really nice fish, way more "wild" and healthy looking than the PFBC fish. I suspect some of the stocked/wild threads with fish from this area are Browns from this club. While in this particular case I guess I don't have a huge issue with it and think their intent is good, I'm not a fan of the PFBC pandering to local groups like this in general. There are many other areas where private stockings are "protected" or "allowed" or "over-looked as tradition" or whatever you want to call it, when we can all pretty much agree it shouldn't be happening. Although the PFBC won't acknowledge it publicly as a matter of policy, and has strategic loopholes built into the system to protect themselves in the event of criticism, they know it too.

 

[JackM]

Mike wrote:

"The point is that such streams are not fully meeting the original purpose of the program and, in fact, are violating the original guidance in establishing those waters. Specifically, they were to stay cool until July 1 so that they could provide an attractive fishery to those who desired to harvest some fish even with a reduced creel limit. Harvest is not implied; it is part of the program's title. Otherwise, there would have been no reason to implement the program, as the C&R program would have sufficed. "

Mike, I don't get it. If DHALO sustains the fishery until June 15, who cares if one every so many years, all the remaining viable trout are belly-up before freezer-fillers can harvest them? It still is a better recreational fishery for a couple months because trout can't be harvested until June 15 or until they die, whichever first occurs.

I have spoken.

 

[midnightangler]

Why do anglers feel the need to concentrate themselves 4x denser than anglers on the rest of the stream to fish for mostly stocked trout, which are probably about the same density in the other 80+ miles of stream?

The slate run tackle shop stocks very high quality brown trout in the stretch below slate run. Several hundred 16-20" brown trout that resemble wild fish much more than they resemble stockers. This is what the people line up for.

I can see both sides of this. Pine is primarily a stocked stream. My experience is that there are always plenty of stocked fish until the water temperatures get too warm. Generally I'm not a big proponent of establishing rules to protect stocked trout, and I'm not entirely convinced this will make the fishing any better in the stretch in question. It may disperse the crowds to some extent, although I think the high density of large trout is what brings people to that particular stretch. Distributing those fish out over a longer length of stream may actually make it less interesting for people.

A lot of guys spin fish this stretch for stocked fish. Most access points get fished fairly hard as it is, and it isn't uncommon to see multiple guys with fly rods in the pool below the cedar run campground. This may be a case of "if it's not broken, don't fix it".

My inclination is that they ought to focus on expanding special regs on wild trout waters.

 

[sandfly]

21:00 minutes or so of the video the driving force comes through. The Lower Pine Brown Trout Club wants this extension (as I intepret it) so that the state will further protect their private trout stocking and they are the group that had the original proposal (which also included a slot limit). PFBC notes that the warm water is the trump card over the slot limit, if they would have considered that option.

don't forget they are backed by a brewery too.


the area from Ansonia to galeton holds fish all summer and has a lot of nice browns to. maybe I should start selling pins for browns..

 

[BradFromPotter]

sandfly wrote:

21:00 minutes or so of the video the driving force comes through. The Lower Pine Brown Trout Club wants this extension (as I intepret it) so that the state will further protect their private trout stocking and they are the group that had the original proposal (which also included a slot limit). PFBC notes that the warm water is the trump card over the slot limit, if they would have considered that option.

don't forget they are backed by a brewery too.


the area from Ansonia to galeton holds fish all summer and has a lot of nice browns to. maybe I should start selling pins for browns..

They already did.. upper pine creek sportsman association.

 

[Chaz]

Mike, we're not talking about C & R here though many of the anglers will release all of the fish, because they know the Club stocks big browns and bows there. The Club simply wants to be able to have the fish hold in that section until it gets really warm.
What it means is that by mid June most years the trout stocked in that section have moved into the tribe by then and the fish are still available. If there were no DH area there the fish would be harvested by Memorial Day. I have no problem with the Club want to protect the fish a little longer.
As noted in another response this section has some deep holes where the trout hold.

 

[Fishidiot]

Bump.

Just a reminder that the last day of the comment period is Sunday the 6th.

Link to PFBC Comments

 

[Fishidiot]

The PFBC commissioners have approved the proposal to extend the DHALO downstream. They are considering some other additional options as well that are not ironed out yet....but the extension of the special regs area passed.

 

[Mike]

There is at least one option that would do a better job of matching the temperature characteristics of Pine Creek and other DH Areas with the intent of the program as expressed in the program title.