PFBC FISHERIES AND HATCHERIES COMMITTEE MEETING May 10

DaveKile

DaveKile

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The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) will conduct a meeting of the Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee on Monday, May 10, 2021 at 9:00 a.m. This meeting will be held online with Commissioners and PFBC staff participating remotely.

Public comments pertaining to the agenda can be submitted by calling (717) 705-7846 beginning on Thursday, May 6 at 8:00 a.m. until Friday, May 7 at 12:00 p.m.

More details here

Agenda DOC Link

Virtual meetings are streamed live on the Facebook page

We might be interested in this discussion:
• Commissioner Hussar’s tabled proposal from the April 12, 2021 Commission meeting

• Trout slot limit programs (All-Tackle Trout Slot Limit and Artificial Lures Only Trout Slot Limit) under 58 Pa. Code § 65
Details from the last meeting: https://youtu.be/llkQJ2gnNuU?t=7055
 
Dave,
Thanks for posting this. Otherwise, I would have missed it. I phoned in my somewhat less than articulate comments (I don’t like that format). I would have preferred to prepare written comments in an email, but such is life.
 
Mike

I watched the video from last month for about 30 mins. Seems there is a lot of back and forth about the slot limit idea. Generally not a fan. Too complicated for another regulation. Not sure I see the benefit.

 
Was the slot limit idea for wild trout and statewide? Certainly it wouldn't include stockies, right?

I wouldn't oppose a slot limit on wood trout, but I agree, just another regulation to confuse people.
 

I didn’t comment on the slot limit idea, but had I done so it would have included the following elements:
- Slot limits designed to encourage harvest of fish that have stockpiled within certain length groups and have slow growth as a result have not worked for a number of species because anglers have not been willing to harvest many (or enough) fish. The objective is to speed up growth of the remaining fish so that they achieve a more desirable size. Low harvest does not do that.
-The Commission proposal would be counter to the objective if it maintained a low creel limit, such as two fish. If the Commission wants such a reg have a chance to perform well, unlike the failures of almost every other case, it needs to encourage fish growth by very substantially reducing the abundance of stockpiled fish, meaning that the creel limit should be attractive to harvest-oriented anglers even to the extent of possibly allowing a creel limit that is higher than the statewide limit. A two or three fish limit is unlikely to cut it.
-It is unlikely that each trout population in which a slot limit would be prescribed would be well-served by some standard harvestable slot. Such regs need to be fine-tuned to the trout population in question and not generalized from stream to stream. This third point fits with the concern already expressed in this thread regarding the complexity of such regs.

Note that I implemented one slot limit in my career. That slot was a harvestable slot for stripers designed to allow some harvest, primarily of males, but protect most of the mature females. This had nothing to do with stimulating fish growth.

On the other hand, a harvestable slot for trout in Codorus Ck could be beneficial if anglers cooperated, but I doubt that they would and perhaps landowners would not tolerate it.

 
Here is good article that appeared today in the Centre Daily Times which clearly spells out the lack of commonsense with Commissioner Hussar's Class A Wild Trout motion at the last PFBC meeting. If anyone needs additional proof of just how crazy this motion was, just look up on the internet this PFBC comprehensive scientific report on the subject titled: "Angler Use, Harvest, and Economic Assessment on Wild Trout Streams in Pennsylvania"!

Here is the Centre Daily Times article today written by Mark Nale.

Afield: Pa. Fish and Boat meeting sparks debate over wild trout stream regulations

April’s Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission meeting was significant for what almost happened, not what did happen. The big event was not mentioned in the agency’s news release. Maybe it will just fade away, although several commissioners seemed hell-bent on making a big change in wild trout management.

A motion was introduced by Commissioner Eric Hussar to make all Class A Wild Trout Streams in Pennsylvania catch-and-release, artificial-lures-only. Normally, all such motions are brought up before the Fisheries and Hatcheries committee, and if passed, presented to the full board. Hussar’s motion was quickly seconded by commissioners Charlie Charlesworth and William Brock, who represents Centre County.

All three of those commissioners are members of Trout Unlimited, a national conservation and fly-fishing organization that strongly favors catch-and-release trout fishing. Although the group claims not to favor any specific tackle types, its magazine, calendar and actions show strong fly-fishing bias. Trout magazine last had a bait fishing article in 1985.

If passed, this motion would forbid the harvest of trout and the use of any type of bait (salmon eggs, minnows, earthworms, Powerbait, wax worms, etc.) on any Class A Wild Trout Stream in Pennsylvania. Hussar said the reason for his motion was to protect wild trout.

A very lively discussion ensued. Commission President Richard Lewis then said that he could not support Hussar’s motion. “I share your concern for wild trout, but you are putting forth a motion I don’t have adequate data or any knowledge that making all these streams catch and release would guarantee that these streams will have more fish,” Lewis said. Lewis asked how many miles of stream would be impacted by this proposal, but the three commissioners didn’t have an answer.

I am sure that PFBC staff will have the details for the commissioners before their next meeting. However, I did some rough calculations to get a better understanding of the scope of Hussar’s motion.

Tucked away on the commission’s website is a list of nearly 1,000 Class A streams, totaling approximately 3,000 miles of water. These streams are located in 56 counties. Centre County has 87 streams on the list. Ninety-nine percent of these streams are not mentioned in the regulation booklet and are not marked in any way with signage.

Almost all of these streams allow bait fishing and the harvest of up to five trout per day for six months of the year. They are already catch-and-release during the other six months.

After nearly 45 minutes of discussion, Commissioner Daniel Pastore made a motion to table the issue until the next Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee meeting. His motion passed seven to three.
Following the vote to table Hussar’s motion, the discussion continued online on fly-fishing message boards.

A disappointed former commission executive director John Arway posted on paflyfish.com: “… Not only does the board lack the courage to move this forward, there wasn’t a clear comment in defense about why not.” Arway called the move to make all Class A streams catch-and-release, artificial-lures-only “a no-brainer.”

A former PFBC biologist followed with this: “The ‘no-brainer’ is that when there is minimal harvest there is no need for additional fishing-related regulations. If biologists find an individual stream population that exhibits a harvest problem, deal with it appropriately, but don’t over-regulate a statewide population that does not need it. Continue to follow the science. The commissioners got it right so far.”

The more than 70 comments that followed on the message board were mixed — some supporting the motion, others supporting catch-and-release but not artificial-lures-only, and still others opposing the entire idea.

Protecting wild trout
While Hussar said his motion was made with the intention to protect wild trout, most biologists would say the number of wild trout in a given stream is primarily controlled by the available habitat, food, floods, droughts and extremely hot summer days.
In fact, Arway even admitted this in his message board post: “Although wild trout populations are controlled by Mother Nature (primarily floods and droughts), adding a No Harvest regulation will certainly protect some trout.”

About 80 percent of all trout anglers primarily fish with bait. That 80 percent of anglers would be excluded from 3,000 of streams to protect “some trout,” if this motion would pass. Almost all Class A streams became Class A while being managed under existing regulations, which allow bait fishing and a harvest of five trout per day. Do they need extra protection, and to what end?

If Hussar’s motion were to be passed by the full commission, children living along Lick Run in Howard, for example, would not be allowed to fish with bait in their backyards. If a big trout were accidentally to be hooked in the gills with a streamer and bleed badly, the angler will have to release the trout only to watch it die and go to waste. A streamside lunch of fresh-caught fried trout would be a thing of the past.

I hope that common sense prevails at the next Fisheries and Hatcheries Committee meeting.

Mark Nale May 9, 2021
Afield #871 Centre Daily Times
 
"If a big trout were accidentally to be hooked in the gills with a streamer and bleed badly, the angler will have to release the trout only to watch it die and go to waste."

Really? A dead rout not use for human consumption is wasted? The ecosystem disagrees.


"A streamside lunch of fresh-caught fried trout would be a thing of the past."

That would only be true along Class A streams, no along stocked streams.


I am not in favor of statewide C&R for Class A streams. While I do not keep fish, I see this as a non-specific, largely unenforceable law. I am convinced there is significant poaching going on. This would not address the lack of law enforcement to patrol the thousands of miles of stream. Additionally, the task of identifying and posting such streams is herculean. How, exactly, will that get done? Finally, what is the benefit of C&R. I'm not sure it has benefitted Spring Creek near State College, for example (I know the reason for C&R there is pollution).

I do strongly believe our catch and release ethic is wise. There are too many anglers fishing too effectively on too many days for the trout population to withstand even light harvest of wild trout, especially on headwater streams where wild brook trout are holding on. However, all who currently (mostly) practice C&R do so voluntarily. We came to this decision through education and cultural shift. Think outside the "trout box" and consider the culture of C&R bass angling with conventional tackle.

 
The answer for protecting wild trout in Class A's seems so simple to me.

Just stop stocking all Class A's, but still allow every type of angler to fish these streams.

That will eliminate much of the bait fishing and hordes of anglers descending on these streams; not by law, but in practice.

No radical new regs and no enforcement problems.

Done!
 
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