PFBC adult trout stocked stream section miles per biomass class

[Mike]

Happened to see this the other day when looking up something else.

From the 2010-2014 trout plan....
Class E: 2294 miles (no trout reproduction)
Class D: 1587 mi
Class C: 572 mi
Class B: 259 mi

While the above figures most likely have slightly changed with some additions and deletions since then, they’re probably pretty close on a relative basis.

Also, a few yrs ago it was reported that the Class B’s represented about 18,000 trout. No B sections were being added to the program anymore.

I specified PFBC stream sections so nobody here would confuse them with Cooperative Nursery (sportsmen) stocked sections, although there are some duplicate stocked sections in many areas.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

What?
No listing of stocked claas A miles?
Well now, we know its not 0.

Im taking it that is what we are looking at, miles of what ever class water that is stocked?

 

[outsider]

Thanks for the info Mike. Now that I am trying to stay close to home to fish, is there any way of finding out the upper and lower limits of stocked waters? The limits were posted on the stocking schedule site, which has been shut down.

 

[Dave_W]

Interesting - thanks.

Printed and filed away.

 

[Swattie87]

I think this shows that in general, the PFBC largely gets this right. Stock fish in the streams that need them, and don't have large quantities of wild Trout.

That being said, and I'm sure they know this, it's not perfect. And at times, angler and/or landowner demands are put above managing the wild Trout populations. This is a balance, and again, I think they're getting it right, most of the time.

That being said...My absolute favorite stream to fish in PA is a small forested freestoner that is a listed STW. It's "officially" a Class B stream, and about 5 or 6 miles of it are in that 259 miles of class B stocked water. One problem...It has an easily Class A biomass of mixed wild Brook and Brown Trout in it...and I have the survey results that show that. I don't know why it's not listed as Class A, despite the survey data, though I know just having the survey data doesn't necessarily mean a stream makes it through the process of approval to get Class A listing. There's many more factors at play, and not all of them have to do with angling and fish populations. I get it. Anyway, every February I anxiously await the stocking schedule to see if it gets dropped. Maybe next year.

 

[silverfox]

Mike wrote:
Happened to see this the other day when looking up something else.

From the 2010-2014 trout plan....
Class E: 2294 miles (no trout reproduction)
Class D: 1587 mi
Class C: 572 mi
Class B: 259 mi

While the above figures most likely have slightly changed with some additions and deletions since then, they’re probably pretty close on a relative basis.

Also, a few yrs ago it was reported that the Class B’s represented about 18,000 trout. No B sections were being added to the program anymore.

I specified PFBC stream sections so nobody here would confuse them with Cooperative Nursery (sportsmen) stocked sections, although there are some duplicate stocked sections in many areas.

Great, so if they'd just remove the 2,418 miles that DO support trout reproduction, plus the X miles of Class A's that are stocked (smh), THAT might be progress.

The thing this doesn't account for is Bob's, "off the books" private fishing club that stocks 3 miles of public water with $10,000 worth of private hatchery fish every year, or the numerous clubs that dump fish wherever they want. Or the co-op hatcheries.

 

[troutbert]

The first priority should be on shifting stocked trout away from native brook trout streams.

Because brook trout are native fish. And because their populations are more negatively affected by stocking than brown trout.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Last two responses:

+1

 

[silverfox]

Does anyone else ever wonder why we don't manage other wildlife like this (other than pheasants, and we all know how well that's working)? Why not raise turkey and stock them in the wild and increase the daily bag limits and possession allowances for turkey? How about deer? Let's increase the deer harvest to 50 deer per hunter, and then when the population crashes, we'll just artificially propagate them. Also, while we're at it, let's import some exotic deer from Asia and release them everywhere too.

It all sounds ridiculous right? Yet that's exactly how we manage trout. We're all desensitized to it because that's all we've ever known. In the 1800's when native populations were decimated and the fish and boat commission was formed, people subsistence fished, and so they had to fill that void. This isn't 1800 and nobody is subsistence fishing. Nobody NEEDS 5 trout per day.

What the state fish and boat commission does is not resource management.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Silverfox,

I tried that anology here years ago. Generally, you are speaking to the choir, the rest just think it's looney.
I would love to see wild trout managed properly.
It starts with what Dwight pointed out.

 

[silverfox]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Silverfox,

I tried that anology here years ago. Generally, you are speaking to the choir, the rest just think it's looney.
I would love to see wild trout managed properly.
It starts with what Dwight pointed out.

I agree with what Dwight said 1000000000000%

What's really disturbing is that they wont even stop stocking the 9 or 13 (whatever) Class A "Sections" (I absolutely hate the way they manage entire streams by the millimeter).

People only think it's looney because it's all they've ever known. People are desensitized to the absurdity of it.

 

[troutbert]

silverfox wrote:
Does anyone else ever wonder why we don't manage other wildlife like this (other than pheasants, and we all know how well that's working)? Why not raise turkey and stock them in the wild and increase the daily bag limits and possession allowances for turkey? How about deer? Let's increase the deer harvest to 50 deer per hunter, and then when the population crashes, we'll just artificially propagate them. Also, while we're at it, let's import some exotic deer from Asia and release them everywhere too.

It all sounds ridiculous right?

In the past wildlife WAS managed that way.

But things changed to more of a habitat and landscape approach, rather than a game farm approach, mostly because of the influence of Aldo Leopold, and his book "Game Management."

 

[salvelinus]

I agree with you guys, but here is the problem. It's not the PFBC, it's the state legislature. They approve the commissioners, and represent their constituents, who want this crap because, as you said, it's all they've ever known. Look at what happened to Arway.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Truth in that too.
Sad world.

Yet!
You look at the natural reproduction list lately? :-o
You also have Arway to thank for that and a bunch of volunteers

Not so bad

 

[silverfox]

salvelinus wrote:
I agree with you guys, but here is the problem. It's not the PFBC, it's the state legislature. They approve the commissioners, and represent their constituents, who want this crap because, as you said, it's all they've ever known. Look at what happened to Arway.

I know that's the official response when anyone brings up changes to stocking, but that argument is flawed.

The PGC is essentially structured the same way, yet they make changes to regulations all the time to achieve management goals. When they changed the statewide deer opener to a Saturday, I thought people were going to storm the headquarters with pitchforks. I'm sure plenty of legislators heard from angry constituents about the proposed changes, and I'm sure PGC commissioners got an earful from the legislators, but the changes happened anyway.

Of course people are going to complain about management changes. You can't let public opinion override science or wildlife management goals. People in this state have become so reliant on being spoon fed that they threw a complete hissy fit when the PFBC took down the stocking locations and times. If people don't get the GPS coordinates and times to the millisecond of when and where the stocking truck will show up, they throw a tantrum.

We've perverted fishing in this state.

 

[BrookieChaser]

Silverfox, your above post (#15) is spot-on. Well put.