Pennsylvania Native Brook Trout queries

[Acristickid]

The State Fish - our only native trout ( ok char ).

Couple of thoughts-

What is/are the largest waters that brook trout inhabit in the commonwealth?

Is it Penns? Is it Big Spring? Pine Creek? Or even larger waterways?

I realize the fish move but I was thinking of a year round resident population. What do you think?

Has anyone written a book specifically on Brook trout and moreover Brook Trout of Pennsylvania??

 

[DaveS]

The two streams i’ve caught them in are both called Big Fishing Creek.

And I can’t even say they were wild although at least one or two from near Lamar looked pretty authentic.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Certain Sections of Penns and Big Fishing Creek are likely the largest streams that you could find brook trout in all year, however both are more known for brown trout. Many large freestone systems hold brook trout at various times of the year, but they usually get quite warm during the summer so brook trout seek out thermal refuge as well as spawning habitat in late summer through the fall.

 

[pcray1231]

What is/are the largest waters that brook trout inhabit in the commonwealth?

As was said, it's hard to pinpoint what's a year round population and what's a few travelers. I'm not sure Penns and Pine actually have "stream bred in that stream, sustainable, year round" populations. I've caught wild brookies in both, but in such numbers they easily may be coming from a trib, or the odd accident.

Big Spring is a sustainable, local population.

And if you include that, then... Allegheny, Susquehanna, Delaware all have brookies. Not to mention LAKE ERIE and the Atlantic Ocean (coasters, though, that's more up the New England area).

Dave, you've only caught wild brookies from 2 streams? Wow. Our state fish, that likely outnumbers browns in numbers of wild trout in this state, and vastly outnumbers browns in # of streams which are dominated by that species.

 

[Tigereye]

Lehigh has wild (alot from tributaries)… Also stocked and holdovers

 

[RLeep2]

>Has anyone written a book specifically on Brook trout (snip)>

https://www.amazon.com/Brook-Trout-Thorough-Americas-Possibilities/dp/1634503023

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

There are a few larger than Penns rivers that have year round populations in Pa.
Neither im willing to name because of forum police.

 

[silverfox]

The "largest water" to my knowledge is a sizeable lake, not a river. Resident population of wild brookies in the lake with little to no predation/other species. Absolutely zero chance of stocked fish being in the equation. I personally think it's the only place like it in the state.

Don't ask.

 

[RLeep2]

If I had to name one most likely (but probably still not very likely..) larger system in PA where there might be a more or less year-round resident population of wild brook trout, it would probably be the Allegheny Reservoir. It has sufficient depth to meet the brook trout's thermal needs and is open to individual fish colonization/recruitment from a pile of tribs with existing wild ST pops. These tribs also provide access out the kazoo to usable spawning habitat.

On the other hand, it is also paved with 10 inch smallmouth bass and has pretty healthy pike and walleye populations which would likely pose a predation problem for brook trout.

All the same, if I got one guess, that would be it...

 

[tomgamber]

silverfox wrote:
The "largest water" to my knowledge is a sizeable lake, not a river. Resident population of wild brookies in the lake with little to no predation/other species. Absolutely zero chance of stocked fish being in the equation. I personally think it's the only place like it in the state.

Don't ask.

For such a place to exist, and I believe it does, there would have to be predation of some kind. Birds or even winterkilll could provide this kind of "culling" if you will. But Brookies will spawn in the gravel banks and stunt relatively quickly.

I knew of many lakes where they stocked them out west and they stunted because they can spawn pretty much anywhere and they overpopulated quickly. On one lake they put Atlantic salmon to try to thin the brookies and it worked. The brookies thinned, the salmon were eventually caught or just died and the Kokanee population rebounded which was the greater purpose of the whole salmon experiment. It was kind of cool.

 

[WILDBROOKIE]

HIGHLAND RESEVOIR CAMBRIA BEDFORD LINE ?

 

[dryflyguy]

I've caught some nice size brook trout in the clarion river, that may have been wild

 

[Swattie87]

The key to the puzzle is why is there a lake of significant size out there that ONLY (or nearly only) has Brook Trout in it?

Answer: IMO, it has to be cold, AND fairly acidic. Brook Trout have among the highest tolerance of acidic water of any fish species in PA. Otherwise, other species of fish that could outcompete Brookies in a lake setting would exist. Where do you get cold, acidic water? Good puzzle to try to solve.

There are lots of small impoundments (up to a few acres in size) in the headwaters of Brookie streams that are packed with Brookies, but I’m sure you guys are talking of something bigger.

There’s also lots of rumors out there of “lake run” Brookies that live in impoundments for part of the year and run up their tribs for part of the year. I know a couple of these spots that are decent sized reservoirs, but they both have a multitude of other fish species in them. (I actually think this scenario is fairly common.)

 

[FarmerDave]

Swattie87 wrote:
The key to the puzzle is why is there a lake of significant size out there that ONLY (or nearly only) has Brook Trout in it?

Answer: IMO, it has to be cold, AND fairly acidic. Brook Trout have among the highest tolerance of acidic water of any fish species in PA. Otherwise, other species of fish that could outcompete Brookies in a lake setting would exist. Where do you get cold, acidic water? Good puzzle to try to solve.

There are lots of small impoundments (up to a few acres in size) in the headwaters of Brookie streams that are packed with Brookies, but I’m sure you guys are talking of something bigger.

Good points Swattie. Thinking of this... I know of one that fits that description and it is considerably larger than a few acres. Chapman reservoir in the ANF. But they stock the shart out of it. Geology sucks around there, and I think the main stream that feeds it is a class C or D because of the acid. The springs are likely very acidic as well.

But I only fished it near the dam for the stockies.;-)

 

[pcray1231]

Geology sucks around there, and I think the main stream that feeds it is a class C or D because of the acid.

The West Branch above Chapman is pretty lean. Some of it's tribs are excellent, though.

Not sure Chapman really stays cool enough.

 

[jifigz]

Pcray, I'm sure that DaveS was only suggesting the larger streams where he has encountered what he thought were wild brookies. After all, the OP asked about larger streams. I'm sure that 95% of PAFF members have caught a zillion brookies from tiny mountain trickles but that isn't what the OP was asking for.

As for me, the largest stream that I ever caught a wild brookie out of would be a small mountain freestoner. I've never encountered them in any of our larger waterways. Other than Big Spring, of course.

 

[silverfox]

Swattie87 wrote:
The key to the puzzle is why is there a lake of significant size out there that ONLY (or nearly only) has Brook Trout in it?

Answer: IMO, it has to be cold, AND fairly acidic. Brook Trout have among the highest tolerance of acidic water of any fish species in PA. Otherwise, other species of fish that could outcompete Brookies in a lake setting would exist. Where do you get cold, acidic water? Good puzzle to try to solve.

Exactly right on both counts. Cold and acidic (altitude and geology). It's also not terribly fertile. There's not a huge population of brook trout there. They're also not really much bigger than what you would find in a typical freestone brookie stream. It's a bit of a conundrum in that it's really not worth the effort to fish it. There are a lot of places that are easier to get to and easier to fish that have the same class fish.

Like the lakes in Canada, Maine etc., you really need a boat and hardware to fish it effectively, and there's basically no way to get a boat in there.

Yes, of course there is predation from birds, and natural die off. Simply stating that there are little to no fish predators (ie. pike, walleye, musky, LMB & SMB). It's also a bit odd when you visit there because there is an obvious lack of fish in general (no panfish, very little baitfish).

A few more clues; it has a class A brook trout stream as a feeder (also acidic) and it's extremely difficult to get to. It's not technically open to the public, however, most realistic routes in have no signs and there are no signs around the lake (except for one at an obvious hazard). It's surrounded by public land. It's a little over 40 acres in size.

 

[dryflyguy]

Not gonna drop any names
But I think I've been to the lake silver fox is talking about.

I made a long hike in to fish both streams that feed into the back of it.
And didn't do very well on either.

Didn't try the lake.
It's a water supply reservoir, and I figured it probably wasn't open to fishing.

 

[FarmerDave]

pcray1231 wrote:

Geology sucks around there, and I think the main stream that feeds it is a class C or D because of the acid.

The West Branch above Chapman is pretty lean. Some of it's tribs are excellent, though.

Not sure Chapman really stays cool enough.

I don't know. Was just speculating. But I suspect even if it doesn't, there are cold spots. I only fished there twice I think, and it didnt' seem very fertile.

I know of another lake that holds trout year round and is fed by at least two native streams. But it is easy access.

You wouldn't think it could support trout year round, but it does. Between the deep end near the dam (probably about 60 feed deep), and a whole lot of springs in a shallow part, the trout do hold over. But it is also stocked.

Also have seen trout stacked up at the mouth of the main stream during the heat of the summer.

Didn't really fit the description because it also has a lot of other species including walleye and musky.

 

[silverfox]

dryflyguy wrote:
Not gonna drop any names
But I think I've been to the lake silver fox is talking about.

I made a long hike in to fish both streams that feed into the back of it.
And didn't do very well on either.

Didn't try the lake.
It's a water supply reservoir, and I figured it probably wasn't open to fishing.

Sounds right. 2 feeders. 1 class A, one not. My last hike in was 10 miles round trip. The class A is only a class A in the upper half in my experience.