PA Steelhead Natural Reproduction

[albatross]

I was stunned the past Saturday 02Dec2023 to have caught or witnessed three juvenile rainbows 3-5 inches in length on a PA trib to Lake Erie East of the City. I have previously been on stream after "smolts" were stocked, later in the Spring in my past experience. These didn't seem to be freshly stocked smolts from the hatchery. I'm not surprised there is some natural reproduction, but I'm stunned to have caught/seen 3 in one day.

 

[CRB]

Very cool.
It was a wet summer, but dry fall, Stream temps probably were ok for smolts this year.
I have seen them on some of the West side streams in the past.

 

[PennKev]

I was stunned the past Saturday 02Dec2023 to have caught or witnessed three juvenile rainbows 3-5 inches in length on a PA trib to Lake Erie East of the City. I have previously been on stream after "smolts" were stocked, later in the Spring in my past experience. These didn't seem to be freshly stocked smolts from the hatchery. I'm not surprised there is some natural reproduction, but I'm stunned to have caught/seen 3 in one day.

Yes it is unusual if they are all wild and they are all caught in the main stem of one of the tribs.

Does anyone know when smolts are stocked? I know I've had days in the spring when I've caught almost nothing but smolts, but I seem to recall the stocking schedule being changed a few years back in effort to try to get the smolts to imprint better. There's almost no documentation regarding when, where, and how-many available online. At least, I've had a hard time finding it.

 

[OSlumpBuster18]

I always wondered if there was any natural reproduction for steelhead in Lake Erie Tribs. Seems like something that the state would want to promote/support. To quote Dr. Ian Malcolm, "Life finds a way"!

 

[Prospector]

Yes it is unusual if they are all wild and they are all caught in the main stem of one of the tribs.

Does anyone know when smolts are stocked? I know I've had days in the spring when I've caught almost nothing but smolts, but I seem to recall the stocking schedule being changed a few years back in effort to try to get the smolts to imprint better. There's almost no documentation regarding when, where, and how-many available online. At least, I've had a hard time finding it.

Last year, the first day I caught smolts was March 22 and I think they were stocked on that day.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

I've caught smolt during my Spring run this year during Mar 3-5. Fun on the 3wt! I suspect they are put in during spring as I pulled 32 out of a single hole haha. Love me a smolt mine!

 

[CRB]

They are usually stocked as soon as the waters open from the freeze last week of Feb. They are put in early so they can imprint and to save money on feed. They are @ 6-7 " PAFBC (Walnut Creek or Tionesta , 7-8" are the 3cu hatchery)when stocked. 1.1 million smolts are stocked annually in the Pennsylvania Tributaries of Lake Erie.

 

[Prospector]

They are usually stocked as soon as the waters open from the freeze last week of Feb. They are put in early so they can imprint and to save money on feed. They are @ 6-7 " PAFBC (Walnut Creek or Tionesta , 7-8" are the 3cu hatchery)when stocked. 1.1 million smolts are stocked annually in the Pennsylvania Tributaries of Lake Erie.

Do CO-OPs also stock some? I seem to recall the smolts I saw were in the back of a pickup truck and not a PA Fish Comm truck. There were quite a few dead ones (30ish).

 

[RLeep2]

Do CO-OPs also stock some? I seem to recall the smolts I saw were in the back of a pickup truck and not a PA Fish Comm truck. There were quite a few dead ones (30ish).

3CU is a co-op. Actually, it would probably be more correct to say they are are an affiliation of several co-ops. The co-ops probably still do some direct stocking, but I'm thinking it has been less since PFBC set Tionesta up to do steelhead. I'm unsure, having lost track of who does what in this fishery any more.

 

[salmo]

Is there any evidence of eggs, spawn or reds?

 

[Silent Ocelot]

During last month's trip a guide with me spotted a red in one of the tribs but said it was messed up for some reason, as in the fish weren't building it correctly. I was confused but didn't press the matter as we were moving up the creek quite quickly to get ahead of other anglers and some jack*** playing with their dog in the water.

 

[Dr.J 1952]

Large parts of Elk and Walnut are smooth slate bottom creeks not what I think would be conductive to spawning. Raccoon is muddy at the start and gets a little better upstream. Parts of Crooked are better. There is a section of Crooked which is designated as a nursery with no fishing allowed. It starts about fifty yards from the mouth and continues up to the bridge that crosses the stream. You can fish from the mouth to where the nursery waters start.

 

[CRB]

"Crooked which is designated as a nursery with no fishing allowed. It starts about fifty yards from the mouth and continues up to the bridge that crosses the stream."
The nursery water is social regulation not for the fish.

 

[RLeep2]

While it isn't impossible for there to be some steelhead NR in the PA tribs, everything I've ever read or been told by PFBC biologists, etc. says it is pretty unlikely. The shale/siltstone substrate is one major impediment to spawning success as are the year round thermal/flow characteristics of the streams. There is limited usable spawning habitat in some of the smaller tribs to the larger streams, but so far as I know, all of this is utilized solely by wild browns of which several of the smaller tribs have modest populations.

 

[CRB]

While it isn't impossible for there to be some steelhead NR in the PA tribs, everything I've ever read or been told by PFBC biologists, etc. says it is pretty unlikely. The shale/siltstone substrate is one major impediment to spawning success as are the year round thermal/flow characteristics of the streams. There is limited usable spawning habitat in some of the smaller tribs to the larger streams, but so far as I know, all of this is utilized solely by wild browns of which several of the smaller tribs have modest populations.

^
Most of the natural reproduction of Lake run Rainbows occur in Lake Erie's eastern tributaries in New York and Ontario. Ontario does not have a stocking program but is dependent on natural reproduction. Do to springs in the norfork sands of southern Ontario there is better chances for NP, Temperatures and stream flows.

 

[hooker-of-men]

^
Most of the natural reproduction of Lake run Rainbows occur in Lake Erie's eastern tributaries in New York and Ontario. Ontario does not have a stocking program but is dependent on natural reproduction. Do to springs in the norfork sands of southern Ontario there is better chances for NP, Temperatures and stream flows.

Which NY tribs, if they are safe to be named?

 

[Solitariolupo]

^
Most of the natural reproduction of Lake run Rainbows occur in Lake Erie's eastern tributaries in New York and Ontario. Ontario does not have a stocking program but is dependent on natural reproduction. Do to springs in the norfork sands of southern Ontario there is better chances for NP, Temperatures and stream flows.

Not trying to be a troll here but Lake Erie and Ontario 2 different lakes. Also where did you hear NY or you say Ontario doesn’t have a stocking program. It’s actually much better than PA’s in some situations. In both states there is natural reproduction going on but the percentage is very low. If these invasive species of trout was not stocked then they would not be there in numbers.

 

[krayfish2]

Which NY tribs, if they are safe to be named?

Guessing cataragus is one of them.

 

[RLeep2]

Guessing cataragus is one of them.

NY-DEC estimates that up to 25% of the steelhead fishery in Cattaraugus Creek are wild fish.

https://extapps.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/cattcreeksteelhead.pdf

 

[hooker-of-men]

NY-DEC estimates that up to 25% of the steelhead fishery in Cattaraugus Creek are wild fish.

https://extapps.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/cattcreeksteelhead.pdf

That's badass. Cool to hear. A quick Wiki review also suggests there is a dam removal possibly in the works? This could almost be enough to convince me to drive across the state more frequently.

I wish that DEC provided that type of wild fish info on those PDFs more frequently. For inland trout streams, information gets hard to parse very fast outside of pretty much the Delaware and the Esopus.