PA ranked 24th in the nation for fishing

[silverfox]

An interesting survey/study was published by Lawn Love and mentioned in the latest PA Outdoor News issue. https://npaper-wehaa.com/outdoor-news-pennsylvania/2022/10/12/?article=4031397

Source: https://lawnlove.com/blog/best-worst-states-for-fishing/

It's odd that a lawn service booking company would publish a study on the best places to fish, but if you read their sources and justification for ranking, it's fairly well done. There are some interesting statistics provided. Some of the metrics they used to score are odd, but it's interesting nonetheless. It's worth mentioning that PA ranked 28th in 2021 in the same "study," so at least we're moving up.

Note that "access" was one of the primary factors. I can relate to that one and would understand why PA would rank low in angler access. You can't fish if you aren't allowed to set foot on the property, and PA's lack of public land is a big issue here. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-land-by-state We're ranked 37th in the nation in federal public land at 2.14% or 617,339 acres, and we're ranked 24th overall in the total amount of public land (federal and state) https://www.summitpost.org/public-and-private-land-percentages-by-us-states/186111

Some of the sources have interesting information as well.

Like; https://outdoorindustry.org/resource/2022-outdoor-participation-trends-report/ and https://outdoorindustry.org/resource/145684/ and https://outdoorindustry.org/resource/2021-special-report-fishing/

Since I got drawn down this rabbit hole, I also found an article from 2013 with some interesting stats: https://www.outdoornews.com/2013/02/25/you-know-pennsylvania-ranks-high-for-hunting-and-fishing/

I have to agree with the author in the last one that I would have assumed PA ranked higher in fishing and hunting both from the 2013 article and the more recent Lawn Love findings. I'm curious if others think, or thought, we rank(d) higher than we do in fishing?

 

[Fish Sticks]

An interesting survey/study was published by Lawn Love and mentioned in the latest PA Outdoor News issue. https://npaper-wehaa.com/outdoor-news-pennsylvania/2022/10/12/?article=4031397

Source: https://lawnlove.com/blog/best-worst-states-for-fishing/

It's odd that a lawn service booking company would publish a study on the best places to fish, but if you read their sources and justification for ranking, it's fairly well done. There are some interesting statistics provided. Some of the metrics they used to score are odd, but it's interesting nonetheless. It's worth mentioning that PA ranked 28th in 2021 in the same "study," so at least we're moving up.

Note that "access" was one of the primary factors. I can relate to that one and would understand why PA would rank low in angler access. You can't fish if you aren't allowed to set foot on the property, and PA's lack of public land is a big issue here. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-land-by-state We're ranked 37th in the nation in federal public land at 2.14% or 617,339 acres, and we're ranked 24th overall in the total amount of public land (federal and state) https://www.summitpost.org/public-and-private-land-percentages-by-us-states/186111

Some of the sources have interesting information as well.

Like; https://outdoorindustry.org/resource/2022-outdoor-participation-trends-report/ and https://outdoorindustry.org/resource/145684/ and https://outdoorindustry.org/resource/2021-special-report-fishing/

Since I got drawn down this rabbit hole, I also found an article from 2013 with some interesting stats: https://www.outdoornews.com/2013/02/25/you-know-pennsylvania-ranks-high-for-hunting-and-fishing/

I have to agree with the author in the last one that I would have assumed PA ranked higher in fishing and hunting both from the 2013 article and the more recent Lawn Love findings. I'm curious if others think, or thought, we rank(d) higher than we do in fishing?

If only there was roughly $12.4 million dollars floating around out there somewhere available on an annual basis that could be spent on access/conservation easements instead of attracting this growing number of anglers to the same/to shrinking access points lol🤔

 

[JeffK]

It makes sense in a way. While PA is a premier fishing state in the mid-Atlantic or Northeast, many of the rural states in the west and south have a more fishing and hunting orientation IMHO. PA looks good compared to its neighbors, but most of US is rural and has good fishing as well.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Interesting, and thanks for sharing. The article about access in the latest issue of FF magazine gave PA an A+... I knew that was lazy research at the time, but this study better reflects the shrinking access and added pressure that I personally see/feel. And all that paired with the further commodification of the outdoors, which is seen as "recession resistant" like beer and cigarettes and pro sports?

 

[JeffK]

I have fished in 4 of the bottom 5 ( NV, AZ, UT, and CT) and have found wonderful fishing in each. The whole state might not be fishing friendly, but each state has some good opportunities. ie, since NV and UT are mostly desert and I get that they are not a good fishing states. But I have had great fishing in the Truckee R and Pyramid L in NV. The Truckee and E branch Walker R are funny. Both start in CA and the CA sections are packed with fly anglers. Cross the NV line and you get the same or better fishing and less crowds since NV as a desert state doesn't have much of a fishing culture. That is changing unfortunately as more CA anglers are crossing the border for less crowded fishing.

 

[afishinado]

I think the ranking depends on what type of fish you pursue. PA is a very good trout fishing state. PA bass fishing is just okay (but when the Susky was rocking with smallies in the 90's I would rank PA rather high for bass fishing). There's some musky fishing but almost no northern pike in PA. Saltwater is non existent unless you include the lower Delaware River as a saltwater fishery for stripers. If you are after trout, PA is a great place to fish and is near the top in the eastern US, IMO anyway.

 

[silverfox]

I think the ranking depends on what type of fish you pursue. PA is a very good trout fishing state. PA bass fishing is just okay (but when the Susky was rocking with smallies in the 90's I would rank PA rather high for bass fishing). There's some musky fishing but almost no northern pike in PA. Saltwater is non existent unless you include the lower Delaware River as a saltwater fishery for stripers. If you are after trout, PA is a great place to fish and is near the top in the eastern US, IMO anyway.

I agree with the species angle. There are a lot of trout fishing opportunities all over the state, though the quality varies greatly. Add to that the seasonality of trout fishing, especially stocked trout fishing, and I think it's not quite as rosy as it seems. Some of the stats we have and what qualifies as a "stream" is questionable. I've explored blue lines classified as class a, and I'm sure they count toward our 16,000 miles of wild trout streams that are nothing more than 15-inch wide trickles that you can't really fish.

On the public access side, while we have a lot of wild trout streams that provide more angling opportunities (for trout) for a longer portion of the year, many of them are inaccessible. Based on PFBC data, out of 5,624 sections classified as supporting natural reproduction, only 2,822 sections have greater than 20% public ownership, and 1,784 have greater than 75%. Note these are stream sections, not streams, and some of the sections are very short. Our best streams (class a) are worse for public access. Out of 1,068 Class A stream sections, only 538 have greater than 20% public ownership, and 328 have greater than 75%.

Something else I've thought about for fishing, in general, is our lakes. We have a lot of drinking water reservoirs that don't allow angling. There's an opportunity to improve fishing opportunities without a tremendous amount of effort or money. It's been done in the past all over the state where private companies own the water supply, and the state has convinced the owner to allow recreational angling. It's possible if anyone cared to pursue it.

 

[Nympho]

I wish they would rank us last so everyone would stay away.

 

[Matt_Geiman]

I really took for granted fishing access before moving to PA. All the streams I used to fish ran through public land. It feels very strange to have to be on others private property in order to fish or access a premier trout stream stocked by the state, or worse to be completely shutdown by unhappy landowners. I'm not sure what kind of relationship the state has with these landowners, but I have realized if we want to continue to have places to fish, we anglers need to do something. I'm not sure the best way to do this besides develop relationships with the landowners myself. Any one else have suggestions or have experience with keeping water open to fish?

 

[coyoterahn]

It feels very strange to have to be on others private property in order to fish or access a premier trout stream stocked by the state, or worse to be completely shutdown by unhappy landowners. I'm not sure what kind of relationship the state has with these landowners, but I have realized if we want to continue to have places to fish, we need to do something. I'm not sure the best way to do this besides develop relationships with the landowners myself. Any one else have suggestions or have experience with keeping water open to fish?

My biggest pet peeve is people littering. I’m baffled at times how people can be such pigs. I almost always have a grocery bag with me just to pick up trash that some slob decided to drop streamside or in a parking area. I know of one area locally that was open to the public for many years. Now there are no trespassing signs and a sign at the parking area that says: “No parking. Too much trash.”

I would like to see the PFBC setting aside more monies to secure more access to rivers and streams. Even if it requires an increase in license fees. However, I’m sure many landowners woul be put off by the lack of respect for their property.

 

[wildtrout2]

I really took for granted fishing access before moving to PA. All the streams I used to fish ran through public land. It feels very strange to have to be on others private property in order to fish or access a premier trout stream stocked by the state, or worse to be completely shutdown by unhappy landowners. I'm not sure what kind of relationship the state has with these landowners, but I have realized if we want to continue to have places to fish, we anglers need to do something. I'm not sure the best way to do this besides develop relationships with the landowners myself. Any one else have suggestions or have experience with keeping water open to fish?

The state of Pa has so many streams on Public land that you'd never come close to fishing them all in several lifetimes. Most being wild trout streams. Be thankful for what you have in State Game Lands, State Forests, and State Parks.

 

[Zipper]

Since we can´t guarantee landowners that fishermen accessing their property will not litter, destroy property, create noise, trespass, not much you can do. Once a landowner is disrespected, it´s over.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

If only there was roughly $12.4 million dollars floating around out there somewhere available on an annual basis that could be spent on access/conservation easements instead of attracting this growing number of anglers to the same/to shrinking access points lol🤔

If only 😔

 

[silverfox]

Since we can´t guarantee landowners that fishermen accessing their property will not litter, destroy property, create noise, trespass, not much you can do. Once a landowner is disrespected, it´s over.

This is why public fishing rights easements and property acquisition should be a top priority for the commission.

 

[Zipper]

What person, who wants privacy, would agree to opening up their land to all sorts of issues? Not too many.

 

[Matt_Geiman]

What person, who wants privacy, would agree to opening up their land to all sorts of issues? Not too many.

And why would the state base so much of their programs on streams on private property?

 

[foxfire]

My biggest pet peeve is people littering. I’m baffled at times how people can be such pigs. I almost always have a grocery bag with me just to pick up trash that some slob decided to drop streamside or in a parking area. I know of one area locally that was open to the public for many years. Now there are no trespassing signs and a sign at the parking area that says: “No parking. Too much trash.”

I would like to see the PFBC setting aside more monies to secure more access to rivers and streams. Even if it requires an increase in license fees. However, I’m sure many landowners woul be put off by the lack of respect for their property.

Agree with the littering issue - amazing. As a land owner in the Laurel Highlands, I had to discontinue hunting on my property due to littering, lack of respect to the property, etc. What strikes me most is the entitlement others feel they have towards MY private property - you read that arrogance here in this forum as well. Don’t assume the littering, destruction of the trails and fencing, blocking access, etc. are not being done by avid FFish guys as well.

 

[Fish Sticks]

What person, who wants privacy, would agree to opening up their land to all sorts of issues? Not too many.

I think silver fox used the word “acquisition” meaning, yea no landowner will agree to any of this in most cases which is why we are where we are in Pa. PAFB has some chump change offer for easements and access. I believe the word acquisition used by silver fox refers to the fact that in 2009 we spent 12.4 million on hatchery program, just like your gas and groceries its gone up. Thats over a decade ago. That money is annually spent, thibk about how much acreage in brook trout strongholds in potter and tioga and clinton costs even in the current real estate boom which is cooling now. Western river conservancy style “sometimes you have to buy a river to save it” is hard out here because ownership/parcels are smaller and more fractionated. However, there is land joining large state parks, state game lands, State forrest, or undeveloped private land that has stream corridors of both high conservation and fishing value.

This sounds crazy and like a pipe dream but is so far from that. We don’t realize that our best fishing spots already result from this. But we just call it a state game land and it was purchased by game comission not pa fish and boat itonically. DCNR just did this by acquiring 3 huge state parks!!
Ironically PAFBs focus is stocking invasive species in the narrowing areas to fish as we get pushed closer and closer together as anglers by purple paint and yellow signs. For any one who has fished the salmon river in pulaski this is not a path we want to flirt with because we have seen what happens when you put an insane amount of stocked fish in a tight area.

That money mentioned above being currently wasted on todays detrimental stocked invasive trout could secure tomorrows access and conservation easements in key select places in a state seeing rapid development in many areas.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

My biggest pet peeve is people littering. I’m baffled at times how people can be such pigs. I almost always have a grocery bag with me just to pick up trash that some slob decided to drop streamside or in a parking area. I know of one area locally that was open to the public for many years. Now there are no trespassing signs and a sign at the parking area that says: “No parking. Too much trash.”

I would like to see the PFBC setting aside more monies to secure more access to rivers and streams. Even if it requires an increase in license fees. However, I’m sure many landowners woul be put off by the lack of respect for their property.

I second this statement. I have seen ungodly amounts of trash on most stocked streams and even a piece of trash or two on wild trout stream (?). Like why?

I think we should push towards more privatization of watersheds/creeks. It's the only way to preserve natural resources. The issue is we are dealing with a certain class of anglers who have no regard for the land or the fish. Because of this the only way to correct this way of thinking is to crack down on the rules. It only takes a few bad apples. If you ate at a restaurant that served you a bad dish, would you not avoid the restaurant even if it statistically served good food? In the same way landowners may have just a single person trash their land and base their judgement off of that one experience.

 

[silverfox]

What person, who wants privacy, would agree to opening up their land to all sorts of issues? Not too many.

I was on some public fishing rights access in NY this morning. I think there were about 13 miles of riparian PFRs on that one stream (not an Ontario tributary). The land was farms and people's backyards and they had parking areas all long the road w/ signage. It is possible.