Overlining a rod

[wgmiller]

I just bought an 8wt for warmwater fly fishing (bass, one salt trip this summer, etc.). I'll be tossing the usual flies associated with this type of fishing (Clousers, Bass bugs, etc.). Would overlining this rod with a 9wt line make sense? I did a quick search and there seems to be some merit to overlining rods that are tossing wind resistant and larger flies. Before I go and purchase line I wanted to get some feedback...

 

[David]

I've typically associated overlining with short distance casting...it can stress a rod when casting a heavier line long distances (probably more so with large, heavy flies), but will "load" the rod quicker with shorter amounts of the heavier line.

For the wind factor, I've heard both sides...the heavier line will drive through the wind better; but I've also heard good casters say they drop line weight because it cuts through the wind with the smaller diameter.

Casting big flies to stripers, I (being a far from great caster) found a lower-to-sidearm backcast with the wind at your back...lifting the fly into the windstream before it passes your head...was a good technique.

 

[GreenWeenie]

First, just because a rod says it’s rated for a particular line weight doesn’t mean that’s the correct line weight. The reason so many people talk about the benefits of overlining their rod and improving performance is simply because many rods today are mislabeled at least one line size too small. When people “overline” their 6 weight labeled rod with 7 weight line, performance improves but not because they are overlining, it improves simply because they are now putting the properly matched line weight onto the rod.

If you have a properly matched rod/line overlining will help load the rod quicker for close up work because 20 feet of 9 weight line will weight more than 20 feet of 8 weight line and the extra weight will help load the rod better. However, if you’re going to overline for distance work, performance will suffer because 50 feet of 9 weigh will weigh more than 50 feet of 8 weight and the rod simply won’t be able to handle the extra weight. Generally on a matched rod/line combo, if you want to stretch distance, underline the rod.

 

[pete41]

If you are going for distance as the norm-shooting heads and running lines double hauled will make life much easier in a wind-
In Montana on big rivers I used an 8wt. rod with an 11 wt.head cut back at the back[not tippet end] until it matched the rod for typical cast.
That way you had the least amount of fly line in the air plus the shortest for casting.

 

[afishinado]

IMO, there's no pat answer about overlining or underlining a rod. Most of my rods cast well with the recommended line weight, but I have several rods that I find cast better for me overlined while others are best underlined.

A general statement about this would be a slower action rod MAY cast better with one line weight lighter, and a faster action rod MAY cast better with one line weight heavier. For shorter casts, one line weight heavier MAY cast easier, and for longer casts one line weight lighter MAY cast easier.

Also, to further complicate things, rods may cast differently with different fly line tapers. BTW, for bass, I've found the Rio Clouser taper line to be a great taper for handling large flies on my 8wt.

 

[RLeeP]

I agree with most of what everybody has said. Much of the answer is specific-rod dependent.

I have a Diamondback American series 9 ft. 6 wgt (fairly slow rod) that I routinely over line with a 7 for smallmouth and it does precisely what I want it to. But then again, most of my bass fishing is drifting weighted flies on a short line through likely holding water.
In order to stay in touch with the fly, I seldom cast more than 30-35 feet.

 

[jcspey]

wgmiller

Along with considering a Rio Clouser head for punching big flies, have you considered using a Rio Outbound line.

The heads are 37.5 ft compared to 30ft of normal lines. Plus even thought the first 30' is the same weight as a standard line, they do have a longer head and higher total head grain weight.

for a 7wt line grain weights
rio classic 193
Rio clouser 179
rio outbound 275

Rio Outbound lines were designed to do exactly what your looking for with out overlining the rod to the point it slows the response of the rod action down or making it harder to control during the cast.

I personally use one on a switch rod, an highly recomend checking them out.

jcspey

 

[wgmiller]

I haven't purchased any line yet and am open to anything at this point. I have the rod and reel but need to pick up backing and line. Hopefully the Rio has a welded loop so I can seamlessly attach a furled leader to it. I'm a part of the new flyfishing generation that doesn't like to tie nail knots! :-D

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to check out the Rio. I'll also be in the market for an intermediate line for my Oregon Inlet salt venture later in the summer...

 

[tomgamber]

Did you ask on the salty board...they fish that weight with wind a lot more often...

 

[wgmiller]

I haven't yet; I'll have to hop over there and see what they say. You know exactly what and where I'm fishing for anyway.

 

[scotto]

I agree w/ the Clouser by Rio. Have them on my 7 & 9 wt and they really do the job throwing big flies, even in windy conditions.

 

[wgmiller]

Looks like picking up 8wt line in that product may be the way to go: http://www.blueflycafe.com/product/975/FlyLine

 

[tomgamber]

wg I use the Cabelas Prestige plus wff line that came with my reel and a clear intermediate orvis line I got on sale and have no trouble with either of those where you intend to fish. I'd use the extra 40 bucks you'll save an spend it on flies or dinner at Jimmy's Buffet...

 

[pcray1231]

Yeah, rods are weighted to match a line weight, with a certain distance of fly line out. GreenWeenie's post was fairly accurate, however its not a case of a rod being mislabeled, its that most people in PA cast shorter distances than the distance used to determine the rod weight. He said 20 feet, the real number is 30 feet. That would be 30 feet of fly line off the end of the rod tip, not from the reel, and not including the leader. At that distance a 5 wt line, for instance, will match a 5 wt. rod properly. If your typical cast is less than that, you should go up a line weight, if its more, you should go down a line weight.

My brookie rod, for instance, is overlined, and I think it helps. If I were in a distance casting competition I think I'd underline it.

 

[GreenWeenie]

The point of 20 feet was that at that distance, technically you are casting less line than the theoretical rating point of 30 feet so overlining will help a correctly rated rod load better because 20 feet of 6 weight line will be pretty close in total weight to 30 feet of 5 weight line. That's why I picked 20 feet. The same applies when you go greater than 30 feet.

And I do think rods are mislabeled. For starters, I don’t think every rod mfg. adheres to the 30 foot standard/design point anymore. Heres why. A rod excels at casting a 6 weight line in the 25 - 40 foot range but it also performs equally well at casting a 4 weight line 60+ feet. What does it get labeled? Theoretically it should be labeled a 6 weight but that’s not where the glamour is in marketing rods so it’s labeled as a 4 weight rod and impresses people in the parking lots by heaving 60 feet of line. Then what happens is someone buys this rod and actually uses it for fishing at close ranged and it just doesn’t perform using 4 weight line. To me, this rod is underrated because it is supposed to be labeled based on 30 feet of line and therefore should be a 6 weight not a 4 weight.

This is a link to Tom Morgan’s website. It’s got some pretty good articles on rod design.

http://www.troutrods.com/articles.html

 

[JoeE]

Performance is what you’re looking for if it makes sense or not who cares. IMO, manufacture line weights and rating only get you close. It really depends on how you are going to fish the rod, type of line, distance and size flies. Fish the line that you get the best performance. I don’t the rod police are going to ask why you’re fishing a 9 wt. on an 8 wt rod.

Joe E