Our dark little secrets: support group

jayL

jayL

Active member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
9,947
Ok, I've been thinkin about this for a while. Ever since Albatross posted that he didn't like buggers, actually.

Bruno's post in the "5 flies" thread has finally given me the courage.






I'll fess up. I have never even fished a muddler minnow. I have them in my box. Many of them, actually. I fish streamers. I catch trout on streamers. I just never thought those things could possibly be worth a damn.... I mean seriously. They float like corks! How is that good?

Ok. Tell me why I'm wrong and what to do about it, please. I'm reaching out.

:)


Also, feel free to spill your darkest fly fishing secrets here if you want. I've heard some real good ones over the years, most notably a guy who claimed Adams never worked.
 
Well Jay, you found something that we agree on. I know people who swear by them (muddlers). i swear at them. I've used them a few times, but never caught anything. I watched a friend catch a 10 pound plus golden rainbow on one once.
 
I think we probably agree on more than you realize. :) I am happy that I'm not the only one though.
 
ok ill fess up too :-D (you caught me with 15 minutes to spare so ill post 1 more before i leave)
i hate those things also...now i will say i do have some conehead muddlers. they have a lot of olive rabbit hair and long streaks of flash in them. these are large flies (we call it the bird). because while im casting it , it looks like im using a small bird as a fly! :-D i have had many large trout go for them, but yet to have any strike it. this is the only muddler i fish. iam partial to weighted streamers like a bugger because i can imitate so many things with it and dont have to use split shot.
unweighted muddlers i hate and never use them.

tell you what you can do if you want to fish a good minnow pattern. if you tie flies, find out what minnows are native to the watershed you commonly fish. (black, yellow, red dace) tie a minnow pattern that matches the color of these minnows. it could be a clouser style minnow or even a bugger. experiment some and you will find by doing this you have the perfect minnow imitation. the big plus, since you are tying them yourself, you can either add a beadhead or weight the fly yourself. fixes that floating problem! :-D

either way if your catching fish then why change. its not so important to fish a muddler minnow......i dont miss out by not using it.
 
I'm sure we do agree on a lot. Just joking around.

Now, about those muddlers. Think about it. If I have this right, fishing those properly is like adding weight to a popper. It's jig fishing, not fly fishing. I'll bet i would have better luck fishing them as a dry fly. The fish might think it is a small frog or a small mouse.
 
Or a very very mean caddis...

Good points sal. I've been going about it that way for years, and I've been doing just fine. I'm just trying to exorcise the demons.
 
Farmer dave,

There are fine lines here. If that is jigging than the slippery slope applies to all streamers. If you are a top water purist than that may be your view. I actually read a smallmouth book and the author ties a fly to immitate a Mr. Twister. Now that IS jigging!

But hell why not? Asside from the dear hair head the muddler is a great fly. All that marabou gives considerable action. And you can use them on top for bass also.

I think it all goes back to having confidence in your fly. You guys tell me this all the time.
Flies I have never had luck with;
-green wenie
-san juan worms
-wooly buggers (up till this year)

I decided to fish w/ only buggars for a day or two to overcome my confidence issues with them and guess what? They are now a go to fly w/ me.

In a waterway that is heavily dependant on forage fish you may change your tune on the muddler.
 
The only time I've ever had success with muddlers were Olive Marabou Muddlers in Clarks Creek two falls ago fishing above the dehart. Other then that I've always just stuck to minnow streamers and buggers and never even attempted to use a muddler.

Ryanh,

When I started out green weenies, san juans, and PTs were tough for me to catch fish with. Now I tie on PTs and green weenies almost everytime I'm going through my nymph patterns. I think like you said you need to catch a couple of fish with them before you really start to give them the time of the day, now Im 11 years into fly fishing and I use those two flies all of the time.
 
Zug Bugs and Prince Nymphs.....hate 'em.
 
WOW.

a herl hater!

:-D See, we all have our problems.. haha.


I know if I tried them I'd probably catch some fish. How do you do it? Just completely swamp them with split shot?
 
I caught a huge smallmouth on a muddler minnow when I was just learning to fly fish. Since then... nadda.

I think the muddler works best when fish are keying on the sound it makes pushing through the water. Clear water, sunny days... nice days to fish, but bad days for a muddler. I think it likes high water or night fishing. Which I never did like.
 
Dude,

When I first saw a Zug Bug, I thought wow - great pattern. My love affair with the Zug quickly faded as I failed to catch fish with it. Now the Prince, I do catch fish with it from time to time.

Can't say I've had much luck with muddlers. I probably carry a dozen of the things in various colors and sizes. Pad's probably right about it being a high water fly.
 
I have done very well on muddlers. This year I have actually caught a significant number of trout on a yellow marabou muddler. It doesn't take too much weight to get them down, once they are saturated and the movement created by the combination of a bb a few inches up the tippet, a buoyant head, and the marabou is irresistible to trout. Apparently it is just me, but mudders are one of my go to flies.
 
Funny all of the reasons I like the muddler are listed in these various posts. Grease it up and you have a mouse or hopper dry depending on its size. You can jig it and your can swing it. I had a day in potter county last year when I quit counting at 20 trout. They chewed it up so bad that the hook was almost bare at the end of the evening.

Give them a try.


The Zoo Cougar that dave1066 tied for the swap if quickly replacing it.
 
My objection to the muddler is two-fold: they are difficult to tie and expensive to purchase. When I get one in my box somehow-- maybe finding it in a tree-- I usually can catch trout with it, about as easily as with any other streamer. I like them with a heavy conehead. They would not make my top-5 or even top-ten list, though, as the wooly bugger fits that niche in the arsenal just as well and they are cheaper and easier to tie.
 
Spinning deer hair if fun Jack.
 
"I'll fess up. I have never even fished a muddler minnow. I have them in my box. Many of them, actually. I fish streamers. I catch trout on streamers. I just never thought those things could possibly be worth a damn.... I mean seriously. They float like corks! How is that good?

Ok. Tell me why I'm wrong and what to do about it, please. I'm reaching out."

Jay- you raise an interesting issue. Many years ago as a youngster fishing the flat brook in "Joisey" the muddler, especially in yellow, was my go to dynamite fly. Although I carry 4-5 with me I have not fished one in 30 years! I think I am waiting to meet another fly fisherman on the stream that says "I just caught 18, including 4 over 20 inches in that pool upstream on a muddler" for me to tie one on again.
 
Interesting thread! I must admit, that so far this season my variation of the muddler might be the most productive fly I've ever tied. I tie them on a tiemco 5263 and the only thing really muddler about them is the head. For the tail I use 3 equal parts white, brown, and olive marabou, the shank is wrapped with about 15 turns of fine lead, and the whole thing is tied with fire orange thread with the body being wrapped in gold french tinsel. I'd post a picture, but I can't seem to keep them from getting chewed to pieces. :-D The brookies here just destroy them. I was fishing a well stocked creek the other day, and lets just say I did very well. People were walking away from the creek in disgust with me at one point. Very little skill on my behalf, just the right fly in the right water on the right day. I missed about a dozen fish for every one I got, and I got quite a few. Everybody who asked what I was using just gave me the old 3 heads/killing puppies :-o look when I told them it was a muddler. Same response every time "a muddler, really? Well I've never caught anything on one of those!" I think mine is probably more of a sculpin pattern than a muddler, but it was supposed to look like a little brookie when I first tried it. I sat down on the Wiconisco creek the other week just below the Ned Smith Center and was watching sculpin in the fast current just darting from rock to rock and realized why the pattern worked. It's a horrible brookie imitation, but dang it looks and swims like a sculpin. I'd better be careful, since I've posted a sculpin recipe the Don might put a hit out on me. Sorry, I had to make that reference. I woulda skipped it, but c'mon! Mafia hits and a guy named Don? It sorta writes itself! :lol: As a good friend once said, if you meet an Italian guy named Don, just remember, show some respect, because there is no Donald in Italian. :p

Boyer
 
Jay,

I'm not a total herl hater, I love griffiths gnats.....

I'm sure there will be one day when prince's or zug's save the day and then I'll convert.
 
The Zoo Cougar that dave1066 tied for the swap if quickly replacing it.
Click to expand...


I got a hold of one of Dave's Zoo Cougers and it is my go to streamer patern now he gave me the jointed verson and I can't keep the fish of it :-o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Harman's North Fork Cottages


Real Time Data From
the USGS Site

Share this page

Back
Top