Opinions on restricted areas below dams

Jessed

Jessed

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I saw a video of a guy fishing below a dam and he was kicked out because of homeland security purposes. I thought to myself basically they meant that terrorist have won by stripping the rights of American people trying to fish. Any opinions on stuff like this?
 
While I can't speak to the specific example you're citing, I can say that many dam and tailrace areas were off limits long before 911. I think much of this is just a safety matter. It's often frustrating to see what looks like a very fishy spot fenced off.

As the saying goes, it is what it is. Look elsewhere.
 
The terrorists have not won just because you cannot motor up to the dam. They are winning in other ways, but that's for another forum.
 
Many places have been that way for a long time, Lighthouse Dam on Salmon R and Deposit dam on East Branch come to mind right away. Safety, security, and even conservation are given for reasons. Many dams wouldn't allow fishing near the dam or a fish ladder to prevent people from catching too many fish when they are concentrated.
 
It has struck me as odd the way homeland security is invoked every time some steward of a public place is too lazy to take care of security and provide reasonable public access.

There is also the matter of claiming homeland security is a concern when the reality is it is nothing more than an excuse for some monied entity to lay claim to a public place.

The second point is the one that I think applies most to public access to public waterways just below dams.

For example, Conowingo Dam on the Susquehanna was a place where anglers, birdwatchers and other outdoor enthusiasts were allowed access that extended onto a fishing catwalk on the breast of the dam before the 2001 attacks. Boat access was permitted to the pool just below the dam.

After the attacks, public access to the fishing catwalk was ended and the no boats area was extended a good distance.

Granted, the dam's owners over the years were not necessarily obliged to provide a fishing catwalk from 1929 to 2001, but the reality is the dam did greatly affect fishing opportunities on the Susquehanna when it was built and it was built in an era when there was no FERC to require certain levels of social and ecological responsibility on the part of dam builders. Likely the catwalk was seen as a way to mollify enough of the fishing public so that the cutting off of a shad run that went as far up river as New York state would seem less painful.

Generations passed. Shad fishing in the Susquehanna in Pennsylvania is not part of living memory, so the need to mollify the fishing public was greatly diminished, and the expense of keeping the fishing catwalk in good order could be conveniently eliminated in the aftermath of attacks on high profile structures.

I should say here that Conowingo's ownership has gone back and forth on its commitment to stewardship of the river, the fisheries and the territory around the dam. In the past decade, the ownership has invested substantially in a new fishing park (thought catwalk remains closed), which is very nice. For many years, however, they also funded a "scientific" operation that did research that seemed designed to show that even if the dam were taken out, the shad run wouldn't come back. Such research is fairly commonly done on behalf of the hydroelectric industry, read research designed to demonstrate that Atlantic salmon can no longer survive and reproduce in Lake Ontario because of the presence of alewives. It's an odd claim since the Atlantic Ocean was teaming with alewives at the same time it was teaming with Atlantic salmon, but that's another rant.

While it could certainly be argued that the actions taken on the downriver side of the dam at Conowingo are indeed on behalf of increasing security, but only when the upriver side of the dam is ignored.

The actions on the downriver side are substantial, but every time I drive across the dam and look upriver, it strikes me how easy it would be for someone to load up a raft with nitroglycerine (Rooster Cogburn style) and float it right into the dam's back end.

It leaves me wondering, why all the concern about a guy carrying a tackle box and a cooler onto the catwalk, but not so much about what's floating into the dam's back end? From that perspective, it doesn't seem like the issue is homeland security at all.

One more example: drive across Conowingo from where I live and head north on U.S. 1 and in a little while you'll be at Tulpehocken Creek, where anyone can go stand on the outflow from Blue Marsh Lake and fish, or throw rocks or anything else, without anyone thinking you might be a threat to homeland security.

In my mind, dams are necessary, but they also limit public access to public places. Increasing public access to the waterways above and below dams should be a public policy goal. Imposing further limits in the name of homeland security is at best ineffectual (Rooster Cogburn example) and at worst little more than an excuse to keep the public out of public places.

 
Lawyers probably have more to do with limiting access to the area around dams (companies aversion to risk) than terrorists.

JimKennedy - agree 100% that there are attack vectors against dams if they really were concerned about security.
 
Also the game warden in the video said he could fish by the dam in a boat just not on the land for homeland security reasons which is odd
 
The yough you can fish close to the outflow.

The place that I would like to fish is below the dam at the Quemahoning Reservoir. It seems to me it's almost unfishable where you are allowed to fish at the flows I've seen the couple times I was there. It's 3-5 deep with a bath tub like bed. Need a craft and that only looks like you could get in at the bridge about a half mile below the dam. It's a short stretch from there to where it dumps into Stoneycreek

You can fish the outflow at the Loyalhanna dam.
 
Good topic.

Research how these big dams on rivers came to be. Same with railroads. How did they get the land in the first place? Great deals for big money. not so much for average joe.

The flag waving, law and order, corporation loving, stay off MY private property, tax hating types constantly preach about freedom. Of course their ideas about freedom only apply to them.

What's theirs is theirs and what's yours is theirs too.
 
Which dams are restricted this way?

At Sayers Dam on Bald Eagle Creek, people fish right at the outlet. This is an Army Corps of Engineers dam.

 
Ive bee to a couple major dam that was open to public could walk right up to some dams as a tourist attraction. Even on top and look down. All have closed after 911 and if you can't see the posted signs sayin if you see any suspicious activity call 911 then your blind. Which I take it as for terrorist. So yes they have pretty much won in my book.
Also to add some spots they do mark cause of safety issues for your safety.
 
DeHart, Marburg, Muddy Creek Reservoir in Lancaster all have restricted areas below the dam. I know from personal experience. I always try to bushwack down into spots that may not have been fished often. I ran into very discouraging signs in the woods near these places and even security cameras in the woods in one spot and had to turn around.

I was once followed by security above Dehart Reservoir, well upstream of where the no trespassing signs end. I spotted them and circled around back to my vehicle and sat waited for them to figure out I wasn't down in there. They were very confrontational, asking me what I was doing. I noted that the no trespassing signs end over a mile back and that I didn't appreciate being stalked while fishing on public gamelands. Never tried to fish the upper section of Clarks again.
 
Kinzua Dam, you used to be able to walk past the generator building, and right up to the dam, no more since 9-11
 
This is one of those topics for which agencies ( probably nationwide ) involved in protecting and enhancing fishing access as mitigation for resource damages or lost access seldom seem to get any credit, probably because anglers don't fully recognize all of the efforts that resource agencies make on their behalf and that of natural resources. Angling and boating access are frequently part and parcel to the licensing and re-licensing discussions with FERC and the power companies for hydropower projects.
 
Rereading my prior post- just to clarify , no fishing below the Quemahoning. PA's newest tailwater I think they call it. Good luck fishing there.
 
Also no fishing below raystown lake
 
I was fishing big hunting creek in maryland one day and spotted the spillway from the lake. Looked crazy fishy!! So a buddy and I rode up and proceeded to put on our waders and lining up our rods right beside a parked resource officer. Thinking nothing of it, I'm spouting off about how many fish "we are going to catch down below that spillway". Finally the officer asked where I planned to go fishing. I replied, "down in the spillway". We were then informed that it was off limits. At least he was nice about it! He even gave us some tips on where we would find the best luck there and other creeks.
 
I would imagine just about any federal dam that is connected to a power grid. Just a thought...
 
tomgamber wrote:
I would imagine just about any federal dam that is connected to a power grid. Just a thought...

Or has the potential for killing a lot of people if blown.
 
There's a fishing platform beneath the largest hydro plant in the northeast (2500+ megawats). I was skipping school salmon fishing on 9/11 (it was a Friday and I was a sr in high school), guys in suits came on the pier that morning and kicked everyone out and told them to turn on the radio or TV to see what was going on.

Pretty crazy day. The pier has been opened ever since, sometimes it closes for maintenance. As far as power plants, this one provides power to NYC so it has to be on the top of the list as a potential target. There is a pretty rough crowd on the pier, but its amazing what gets caught there regularly. SMB, Yellow Pike, Muskie, Northern Pike, Lake Trout, Brown Trout, Kings, Cohos, Steelhead, Atlantics, Sturgeon. Plus huge trash fish like carp, suckers, and sheepshead. Pretty much anything that swims in Lake Ontario can be caught at that pier throughout the year. Unfortunately, fly fishing really isn't an option there.
 
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