Number of guides impact on rod action

[springer1]

Has anyone ever experimented to determine the effect the number of guides actually has on rod action? I know it sounds logical that a greater number would make for a stiffer rod and everyone has an opinion - but does anyone have any actual experience or knowledge about this?

Based on what you done or seen, if I strip the guides off an 8’ store-bought 2 piece graphite rod and redo it with 1 less guide, would it really make a difference?

 

[pete41]

wrap around-
quality rods have the number of guides they do for a reason.
anyone claiming they can take el-cheapo with lesser guides and cast as well-yeah,right-lol
somebody will.

 

[FrequentTyer]

springer1 wrote:
Based on what you done or seen, if I strip the guides off an 8’ store-bought 2 piece graphite rod and redo it with 1 less guide, would it really make a difference?

Yes it would probably get worse.
I have cast a few rods with guides taped on for static testing and played with spacing and number of guides. I've never found a situation where taking away a guide would help. The effect of the guide itself, especially light wire snakes, in terms of weight or stiffness is negligible compared to the impact on line path. If you stripped down your rod, properly splined the blank, and used quality light wire guides with correct placement you would possibly notice an improvement. But you can get reasonable quality blanks cheap enough, so why bother?

 

[springer1]

I have cast a few rods with guides taped on for static testing and played with spacing and number of guides. I've never found a situation where taking away a guide would help

Thanks!

I've experimented with guides on spinning rods (for casting distance), but never with fly rods for effect on the blank's action. I'm thinking of sacrificing a fly rod I no longer use to try different guide spacing scenarios and see what I can learn.

 

[springer1]

wrap around-
quality rods have the number of guides they do for a reason.
anyone claiming they can take el-cheapo with lesser guides and cast as well-yeah,right-lol
somebody will.

Nope, it's not looking like anybody will, probably cause I wasn't asking for that.

Thank you for your insight

 

[pete41]

seriously-your welcome-LOL[good natured]

 

[brain]

instead of dropping one guide, just replace the same number of guides with single foot loops.

 

[Fishidiot]

springer1 wrote:
... if I strip the guides off an 8’ store-bought 2 piece graphite rod and redo it with 1 less guide, would it really make a difference?

Not really.
But then again, I routinely rip fly blanks apart; saw off a foot or two at the butt; rebuild blanks with tips broken off; recycle old reel seats, etc etc. I simply estimate where I want to put the stripper guide(s) and space the rest of the guides by eyeballing the blank.
Some of this depends on how you want the finished rod to look. The spots where guides were removed will likely be blemished. Do you care? Speaking as one who doesn't care about blemishes and can't tell subtle differences in rod action.....my advice, FWIW, is do what you want with this rod and go fish with it.

 

[khoferer]

springer1 wrote:
Has anyone ever experimented to determine the effect the number of guides actually has on rod action? I know it sounds logical that a greater number would make for a stiffer rod and everyone has an opinion - but does anyone have any actual experience or knowledge about this?

Based on what you done or seen, if I strip the guides off an 8’ store-bought 2 piece graphite rod and redo it with 1 less guide, would it really make a difference?

Adding guides will actually make the rod feel softer. The action will be the same but the recovery of the blank during casting will change. You're just adding weight so it won't be as efficient. Taking away a guide may have the opposite effect (I haven't experimented) but you will be changing the stress distribution on the blank so guide position would be more critical. Sounds like an interesting experiment.

 

[Stevie-B]

I have heard that having more guides (within reason, whatever that is) improves the "flow" of the line. It has to do with the angle of the line as it approaches the guide. With less guides you get a sharp angle and lose energy thereby slowing the line down. More guides decreases the angle and the line can maintain its velocity.

 

[MKern]

Doesn't taking the guides off a rod remove the finish?

I have only done it a few times, but every time the rod's finish was peeled off. not a big deal if you are placing a guide back in teh same spot, but if you are moving them all together?

 

[springer1]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to play with this a bit and see what results I get.

Spacing really intrigues me; I've built quite a few rods and always made sure I placed a guide as close to a ferrule on a 2 piece rod as possible, but I no longer think that's necessary.

I also like traditional guides, but realize that a single foot would assist the action as well as reduce the potential of wear on the blank. I hone the bottom of the feet to ensure they are smooth and make sure they are completely level before I wrap them, but still I can remember when it was popular to "underwrap" first to prevent this.

Rod finish doesn't concern me; I prefer a matt or flat finish anyway to eliminate any glare or flash potential. So, I would take down the finish anyway. (I like a flat or matt finish reel for the same reason, and typically wear camo but thats another topic.)

Anyway, the more I mess with rods, whether it be guide placement, handle building (have any of you started preferring gorilla glue for the handle?), wraping & coating, the more I learn how much more can be understood.

LOL ... and the more I like the newer fiberglass

Thanks everyone !