Monocacy creek high flows

[mute]

Hello All,

I think my next trip to the Monocacy will be when the water is a bit high \ stained. Im curious to know if anyone can recommend the USGS ideal CFS numbers for streamer type fishing. Im not sure what would be too high for that stream or whats normal either. Since its an hour or more away Id like to try to make sure I plan as accurately as possible.

THanks in advance.

 

[govtmule]

Mute sometimes you gotta pay yer dues

 

[mute]

govtmule wrote:
Mute sometimes you gotta pay yer dues

LOL. The ghettos best kept secret spot or something? Is this some super secret gem hidden in the woods that I need to take multiple hour trips out into the woods to find for myself?

I thought Dave Kiles stated point of this site was to help other anglers, not hide helpful information like water flow on streams. Didnt know that gave up where all the 5lb wild browns were.

Ill reference previous USGS data for the guage in bethlehem and take the hour trip out one rainy day to gauge myself then, thanks for the help.

Oh and for everyone else, look at this guys channel. Look at the size of the wild browns he gets right in urban bethehem! His fish handling skills are impeccable as well!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-If_2_Rv28J9yCViLvDOmA

 

[lycoflyfisher]

I cant stand all the crappy gopro footage that ends up on youtbue. I don't want to watch 30 sec of shaky video walking on railroad tracks, I dont want to watch several minutes of terrible video of chest mounted go pros slinging a spinner or fly around without catching a fish. i

If I had a CFS reference for Monocacy I would let you know, but CFS alone is not necessarily a good indicator of fishing conditions. Depending on flows before a particular rain event and how wet the ground is can greatly effect the turbidity and runoff rates in particular watersheds. The only way to get a good feel for conditions post rain event in a particular watershed is to check those streams out after multiple rain events. Sometimes relocating just a few miles can provide optimal conditions as well.

If you are driving to the area in question you also would have several other streams within reasonable driving distance ie Bushkill, Little Lehigh amongst others.

 

[mute]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
I cant stand all the crappy gopro footage that ends up on youtbue. I don't want to watch 30 sec of shaky video walking on railroad tracks, I dont want to watch several minutes of terrible video of chest mounted go pros slinging a spinner or fly around without catching a fish. i

If I had a CFS reference for Monocacy I would let you know, but CFS alone is not necessarily a good indicator of fishing conditions. Depending on flows before a particular rain event and how wet the ground is can greatly effect the turbidity and runoff rates in particular watersheds. The only way to get a good feel for conditions post rain event in a particular watershed is to check those streams out after multiple rain events. Sometimes relocating just a few miles can provide optimal conditions as well.

If you are driving to the area in question you also would have several other streams within reasonable driving distance ie Bushkill, Little Lehigh amongst others.

Your points are valid. However im sure the difference between something fishable @ 100-150CFS is an apparently line between it not being fishable @ 500CFS regardless of every other factor.

I can take the chance of other factors like turbidity, clarity, etc etc if generic discharge of 150 or under is fishable conditions. Which should be known.

As for random peoples gopro footage, the seek bar is your friend to see only the fish porn, if thats what youre into.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

I totally get where both Mute and Lyco are coming from here. I find myself staring at the measurables (weather, water flows & temps, etc.) to target the better or best times to go fishing. The reason is I have family and work to consider, so I can't just grab my gear and go whenever I feel like it. I have to be strategic.

The conclusion I usually come to is, when I can, Just Do It!

There's no substitute for first person experience. Going out nearly always beats staring at the computer screen.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

As for random peoples gopro footage, the seek bar is your friend to see only the fish porn, if thats what youre into.

If I am going to spend more than a few minutes on a flyfishing or trout fishing video, it better not have obnoxious narration, it should have decent cinematic quality, show an exceptional fishing experience or have good instructional information.

For example a few good PA channels are Allegheny Native, Hardway Outdoors, Suffering Outdoors.


Edit: Note I am referencing the youtube channel you shared Jun T or whatever, not your channel and blog.

 

[mute]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
If I am going to spend more than a few minutes on a flyfishing or trout fishing video, it better not have obnoxious narration, it should have decent cinematic quality, show an exceptional fishing experience or have good instructional information.

For example a few good PA channels are Allegheny Native, Hardway Outdoors, Suffering Outdoors.


Edit: Note I am referencing the youtube channel you shared Jun T or whatever, not your channel and blog.

fair points. I can agree to a point as i probably have a higher tolerance of the non sense stuff or atleast use it to my advantage. Ive gained alot of good knowledge of areas by watching peoples "throw away footage". Road signs, business names, etc tell a story. Even very specific odd items in the middle of the woods that they may or may not of meant to show while skipping down the hill.

I subscribe to all three of those, very good content. Also very expensive and specific equipment for those exact reasons, producing quality content.

No offense taken, but thanks for the clarity. Some of my stuff is not great, as i only started doing it for my own personal repository of memories. Slowly trying to make it a bit more professional as videopgraphy and editing in general is something i enjoy. Hard to excel at both the fishing and the capture at the same time however with only being one person in the middle of the woods, so thats my only fault i think up to this point.

Also I have fished the LL quite a bit, im just tired of the constant clowns and pulling the same hogs out of the same barrel over and over.

Streams like the monocacy, bushkill, etc are all on my list for weeks now, just havent gotten past all the others on the way there yet LOL.

Also my previous comments about Jun Ts youtube channel was sarcasm if not already noticed. Dudes fish handling skills are horrific.

Fly-Swatter wrote:
I totally get where both Mute and Lyco are coming from here. I find myself staring at the measurables (weather, water flows & temps, etc.) to target the better or best times to go fishing. The reason is I have family and work to consider, so I can't just grab my gear and go whenever I feel like it. I have to be strategic.

The conclusion I usually come to is, when I can, Just Do It!

There's no substitute for first person experience. Going out nearly always beats staring at the computer screen.

Totally agree. Luckily for me i have great flexibility to fish specific water conditions on specific streams for specific reasons. In this case, racing your 600HP car with slicks on in the rain isnt as ideal as doing it when its dry. The same concept applies here, id rather chuck big meat in the perfect conditions instead of losing traction.

 

[Mike]

Monocacy is pretty fishable most of the time except when I have seen it after big thunderstorms. It gets very muddy and very high, but comes back down and has ok clarity, perhaps ideal turbidity I should say, 24 hrs or so later. It drains a lot of ag land and a lot of commercial, residential, and highway development in it lower four miles or so, thus the flashiness and turbidity.

 

[mute]

Would you say it clears and drops as fast as valley creek does every a good 3 inch of rain?

 

[HopBack]

It’s not going to drop quickly like valley. In the spring it can stay swelled and muddy for weeks. The good thing is that winter is a great time to fish it and the stream drops gradient quickly bellow illiciks mill all the way to the Lehigh. This can provide excellent opportunity for streamers even if the cfs is lower. Sorry I don’t know a specific cfs, I usually just looked over the bridge to determine fish ability when I lived there .

 

[govtmule]

Mute, the USGS water flow tables can be your best friend. Look at the tables when it rains even if youre not going so you can get a feel for how the stream typically reacts with regards yo the graph. If you need help reading the graphs ask. Also as said above have a back up plan.

 

[mute]

govtmule wrote:
Mute, the USGS water flow tables can be your best friend. Look at the tables when it rains even if youre not going so you can get a feel for how the stream typically reacts with regards yo the graph. If you need help reading the graphs ask. Also as said above have a back up plan.

Makes sense. I understand making a correlation and trying to proactively be a accurate as possible with the data you have. but even if you have baseline data knowing that XXX inch of rain raises the stream to XXX CFS. You have no idea if that CFS still means fishable, chocolate milk, gin clear, tinged or what have you.

You would have to know what CFS is physically linked to low flow(fishable), what is medium flow(fishable), what is high flow(maybe fishable? maybe mud?). Yea?

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Mute, it can get as complicated as you make it. The other tidbit I will give you is that mixed ag and urban streams can react to rain events much differently at different times of the year. In the spring if there is any active tilling or in the fall, you will have a lot more turbidity and even chocolate milk conditions. In the spring time time or after extended wet periods, streams may take a long time to come back to fishable levels. In drought conditions the same storm that made a particular stream unfishable for days, may not even raise it enough to make it worth fishing or it may add just enough turbidity and bump in flow to get the fishing eating.

Chasing storms and ideal streamer conditions is tough and is much more variable than a certain cfs. The only way to know is to get out and fish or to monitor the streams you want to fish during and after rain events.

I have much less time to fish now, but back when I was a teenager we used to target browns with minnows after a good thunderstorm in May or June. We would drive around until we found optimal conditions it was not uncommon for us to fish 5 or 6 streams in an evening and put 50 miles on our cars in the process. Its a fun game to play, but you will only encounter optimal conditions a few times a year even if you watch the weather and stream gauges like a hawk or live right on a creek.

I have found it possible to fish in high water, if you adapt your methods. The summer of 2018 I fished many streams in conditions I previously thought unfishable and did very well on medium/ large fish. I was at a cabin on Penns for a weekend and we had a big storm Thursday into Friday, Penns itself was over 2000 cfs Friday night. Had a great day Saturday on Cherry Run, the kayaking was great on Penns, and by Sunday morning Penns was down to 1200-1000 cfs. Wading was still near impossible unless in slackwater areas but I caught several upper teens browns running streams through eddys, under cuts and current seams along the bank.

I understand you have a drive, but what many of us are trying to say is that few streams have a magical cfs flow rate that produces consistent conditions after a storm. The only way to truly find out is to get eyes on it, and its always good to have a few backups in the area.

 

[mute]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
Mute, it can get as complicated as you make it. The other tidbit I will give you is that mixed ag and urban streams can react to rain events much differently at different times of the year. In the spring if there is any active tilling or in the fall, you will have a lot more turbidity and even chocolate milk conditions. In the spring time time or after extended wet periods, streams may take a long time to come back to fishable levels. In drought conditions the same storm that made a particular stream unfishable for days, may not even raise it enough to make it worth fishing or it may add just enough turbidity and bump in flow to get the fishing eating.

Chasing storms and ideal streamer conditions is tough and is much more variable than a certain cfs. The only way to know is to get out and fish or to monitor the streams you want to fish during and after rain events.

I have much less time to fish now, but back when I was a teenager we used to target browns with minnows after a good thunderstorm in May or June. We would drive around until we found optimal conditions it was not uncommon for us to fish 5 or 6 streams in an evening and put 50 miles on our cars in the process. Its a fun game to play, but you will only encounter optimal conditions a few times a year even if you watch the weather and stream gauges like a hawk or live right on a creek.

I have found it possible to fish in high water, if you adapt your methods. The summer of 2018 I fished many streams in conditions I previously thought unfishable and did very well on medium/ large fish. I was at a cabin on Penns for a weekend and we had a big storm Thursday into Friday, Penns itself was over 2000 cfs Friday night. Had a great day Saturday on Cherry Run, the kayaking was great on Penns, and by Sunday morning Penns was down to 1200-1000 cfs. Wading was still near impossible unless in slackwater areas but I caught several upper teens browns running streams through eddys, under cuts and current seams along the bank.

I understand you have a drive, but what many of us are trying to say is that few streams have a magical cfs flow rate that produces consistent conditions after a storm. The only way to truly find out is to get eyes on it, and its always good to have a few backups in the area.

Thanks for the response Lyco. I didn't think about the whole urban vs AG situations and all the other variables outside of what can be gained from USGS data. You're probably right at this point. And i dont want to sound like im complaining on "putting on the work" or such to be able to target or fish specific conditions for specific reasons. Thats more then half the fun, exploring, trying, trying again, etc. I just have so many streams to get to in my life that it feels like i wont be making them all. So I was tryin gto save some time on the variables that someone might already have like this specific flow question on this specific water.

Anyway, sounds like ill assume the flow right now is normal or low and after we get a little rain ill have to start making my trips and playing the game through trial error and time.

Thanks again for the discussion\advice.

 

[Bamboozle]

10,00 cfm, it's' fine, jump in!

 

[JeffK]

Just one sort of secret. Big fish move in and out of Lehigh R, so near mouths of all these streams can hold surprising browns, if not always the best scenery.

Don't mind mentioning it since need to put in time to find and catch the big guys.