Ltl Schuylkill Section 08 and Tulpehocken Keystone Select stockings in past week

[Mike]

The Conservation Officer reports that the Little Schuylkill, Section 08, which represents the most downstream mile of the river and is located within Port Clinton, Schuylkill Co, near the Berks/Schuylkill line, received its only stocking for the year last week. He reported that the fish (all Rainbows) were exceptional in size for "standard hatchery trout." This is the section in which poor angler usage has been a concern, but usage has picked up a bit with extra promotion, with many of the new anglers being fly anglers.

Tulpehocken Ck, Section 07, the Keystone Select section received its second stocking this week. These fish should have all been Brown Trout. The WCO reported that the upper portion was float stocked and the lower portion, including the Covered Bridge area, was stocked for the first time from the bike path. This allowed for much better distribution of the Browns with floats as well as multiple point stocking stops. He also reported that the fish were even larger than those stocked in March!

 

[outsider]

I want to thank the rest of the stocking crew for the help yesterday stocking the Tully. The lower half of the DH area was a bit harder to traverse compared to the upper half. Hat's off to the Fish Commission as well!

 

[troutwilleatflies]

A friend fished the tully yesterday and told me the spin fisherman were ripping them up.From what he saw there will be lots of big browns left for racoon food the way they were handled by these yo yo's.Lots of bleeding fish released to "fight" another day.Why does the the regs permit treble hooks in a section of stream where the fish must be caught and released?What a waste!!!

 

[Mike]

Recommend that you review the scientific studies of deep hooking frequency with treble hooks vs single hooks.

 

[afishinado]

Mike wrote:
Recommend that you review the scientific studies of deep hooking frequency with treble hooks vs single hooks.

Here's one from Maryland:

FYI, from Doc Fritchey TU on a Maryland study of trout mortality using artificial lures equipped with treble hooks:

"The artificial lures and flies used in this study were equipped with hooks small enough to be ingested deeply even by trout of less than 200 mm. Warner (1978) noted that smaller treble hooks (size 10) were more easily ingested than single hook flies and caused significantly higher mortality. We found that treble hook equipped lures were difficult to disengage from captured trout, particularly when hooked within the mouth or in the gills. This increased the time required to unhook the trout and thus the actual handling of the fish. Nuhfer and Alexander (1989) reported that the treble hook equipped Mepps spinners used in their hooking mortality study were more difficult to unhook from anatomical sites within the mouths of wild brook trout than were single hooks. We found that single hook artificial flies were generally less difficult to unhook than treble hooks and required less handling of the trout.

The spinner type artificial lures used in this study were equipped with small treble hooks that are characteristic of the sizes used by anglers on the Savage River Tailwater. An on stream angler survey conducted by Fisheries Service personnel from March through June 1994, revealed that the average hook gape of treble hook equipped lures in use was 4.7 mm (range: 4 to 8 mm, N= 23). The size 12 and 14 treble hooks on artificial lures used in this study had hook gapes of 4 and 5 mm respectively. All but two of anglers interviewed were using a spinner type lure similar to those used in the study.

Flyfisherman interviewed during the survey were using single hooked flies with an average gape of 5.1 mm (range: 3 to 8 mm, N= 36), comparable to the 3 to 7 mm hook gapes found on the single hook flies used in this study. Fisherman were also asked if they carried specific tools for hook removal. Thirty five of 36 fisherman (97%) using artificial flies carried some form of forceps for hook removal while 11 of 23 fisherman (48%) using artificial lures carried forceps or pliers.

It is clear that trout caught on treble hook equipped artificial lures in this study sustained more physical trauma than those captured on single hook flies, as evidenced by the higher incidence of bleeding fish. Over half (57.4%) of trout captured on spinners were hooked in a location other than the jaw and 27.8% were bleeding when unhooked. Only 13.6% of trout captured with flies were hooked in a location other than the jaw and only 2.5% of those were bleeding when unhooked.

Mongillo (1984) concluded that salmonids hooked in a non-jaw location (gills, esophagus, tongue, or eye) were four times more likely to die regardless of hook type. Although trout captured in our study were not observed for more than about 4 to 6 hours, the relatively greater physical damage and bleeding observed among trout captured with artificial lures versus flies supports the premise that a larger proportion of trout caught on lures would experience delayed mortality."

 

[Mike]

I was responding to troutwilleatflies' comment about treble vs single hooks, which in the context of his comment, I took to mean treble vs single hooks on artificial lures. I did not take his comment to be a return to the flies vs lures delayed mortality debate, which is the way that I view the Md studies that were presented. There is scientific lit on the single vs treble hook topic, minus the need to bring flies into the debate, and even more specific to the Tully topic, some of those studies were done on adult hatchery trout.

I agree that there are some problems with small trebles and certain small sizes of wild brook trout. Certain small treble hook sizes can be easily taken by aggressive sub-legal Brook trout such that all three points are caught in the forward part of the mouth making unhooking a difficult process since the mouth is practically locked shut. Shifting the hook size on these lures to a larger size eliminates the problem. Alternatively, breaking off one of the three hooks on the small treble hook works in a pinch. This is not a problem that I have encountered with adult trout or normal size stocked trout. They are generally easy to unhook.

 

[troutwilleatflies]

I think you will agree it is much easier to unhook a fish that has a fly(with a single hook) in its mouth then to unhook a fish that has a treble hook in its mouth.Unfortuntely some of the fish that my friend saw hooked were deeply hooked with the spin/treble hooks and were bleeding when released.If the state feels they have to allow spin fishing in this section why not make it a single hook only?The other two points can easily be removed from the lure with a wire cutter.

 

[Mike]

Your second to last sentence is why I suggested that you review the scientific literature on the topic. Single hooks on lures ( spinners, plugs, spoons, etc) cause deeper hooking and more vital area hooking in trout, both of which are indicators of delayed mortality, than treble hooks.

How close to the other anglers was your friend able to get in order to see "lots" of bleeding fish?

Many spin anglers are now using single hooks because of the popularity of jigs combined with soft plastics.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Just observed a big dead one up there.

The problem isn't really the hook it's the hookers.

For some reason a lot of the new spin crowd showing up on that stream seem to feel the need to have prolonged photo sessions and seem poorly equipped to handle and release these larger fish. (no net, no pliers or forceps....grabbing fish in gills and throwing them on bank or dragging through mud) ( i saw all this behavior right after first stocking).

I have made the suggestion several times that some signage with helpful hints for handling and releasing trout would be a good idea but my ideas have (as usual) been ignored.

 

[Mike]

Fox,
Submit your suggestion to the PFBC through its website, but realize that stream specific signage won't cut it. It will have to have applicability to a number of waters, a number of management programs, or a specific management program with multi-water membership to have the chance of being acted upon. Additionally, some sportsmen clubs have signs made up for specific waters. I have seen a TU group do that as well as a sportsmen's lake fisheries management advisory committee, both in York Co.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Mike- Rather than go through all the PFBC stuff I will take your advice and make up some signs. Just thinking some suggestions for how to catch and release more efficiently might be helpful.

 

[afishinado]

The reality is, anyone that has spin fished knows lures with treble hooks are more difficult to remove and three hooks are more likely to cause damage than one.

The reality also is, fly-fishers are a small minority of fishing license buyers in the state. The PFBC is not willing to set aside and stock any/many high use streams for special regulations that prohibit the method of fishing preferred by the vast majority of anglers. I understand the reasoning.

If FFers want to advocate for regulations that will have a real impact on trout fishing, I suggest pushing for reduced creel and/or changes in size limits for harvest in wild trout streams along with the cessation of stocking over wild trout.

How about a designated wild trout stream:

No stocking by the PFBC or any club or co-op

Reduced creel limit to 2 fish daily 14" or greater from opening day of trout season through labor day.

Top candidate for stream protection and enhancement projects (dam removal, riparian cover planting and bank erosion remediation projects, etc.)

 

[troutwilleatflies]

Mike,my friend was right next to these spin anglers and helped one try to release the fish because he had no net,forceps or pliers to try to get the hooks out of the fish.He also observed some of these released fish lying belly up after others man handled them.I see no reason for this except to sell licenses as afishinado mentioned in the previous post.It's a waste of nice trout to me.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Your second to last sentence is why I suggested that you review the scientific literature on the topic. Single hooks on lures ( spinners, plugs, spoons, etc) cause deeper hooking and more vital area hooking in trout, both of which are indicators of delayed mortality, than treble hooks

This is the very reason I started trying my size 14 beetles on treble hooks, oh and midges too. Just takes a little extra foam and hy float but I'm thinking of the trouts :roll:

 

[Mike]

troutwilleatflies,
Yes, I have observed individuals who are ill-prepared to handle large trout. I think there will be a learning curve for individuals who are attracted to this fishery and, hopefully, your friend through his assistance was able to help educate through example.

 

[Smike]

Why is it that trout fishing in PA it seems its legal/tolerable and even promoted (maybe not directly) poor tactics which lead to high mortality rates resulting in waste. The idea being that some think they are promoting C&R when its the opposite. Honestly most are not doing it on purpose, its simply unknown to them, and the regs support it. With the other hunting disciplines within the state, poor tactics and handling of game is not only condemned by the community, but regulations are in place to strictly prevent.

 

[streamerguy]

I don't think it would take all that much effort for a WCO to put up a few signs as they go about their routine patrolling streams. No different than nailing up new "Stocked Trout Waters" or whatever special regs signs as they get torn away, blown off, etc. or need updated. If poor handling seems to be an issue on XYZ Creek, nail up a couple signs during the next patrol and move on...

I'm sure many board members would be happy to put up signs with the PFBC's (or landowner's) permission.

 

[moon1284]

I don't like to see poor handling at all. However the Keystone sections are geared toward getting new people into the sport. Poor handling happens when you are new. I'm assuming this is all part of the equation. What better place for people to become educated than at a stocked fishery that caters to new fishermen.

I get more upset watching a guy who knows what he's doing hold a fish out of the water for 2 minutes to get a dozen pics than someone who doesn't know better drag a fish onto a rock, lift it by its gill, and pull the hook up. Everyone starts somewhere, and I think that is the whole point of the Keystone waters. I'm not sure if it was in this thread or another one, but I think the idea of putting up signage describing how to properly release trout is a good idea. I know I've seen signage somewhere before, it might have been in NY.

 

[Tigereye]

If they sack the fish, it has no chance to survive. Their heart is in the right place. It's all part of the learning curve and we've all been there. Is this really that big of a deal? I get more angry at litterbugs poachers, and anglers with poor stream ethics.

 

[salmonoid]

Smike wrote:
Why is it that trout fishing in PA it seems its legal/tolerable and even promoted (maybe not directly) poor tactics which lead to high mortality rates resulting in waste. The idea being that some think they are promoting C&R when its the opposite. Honestly most are not doing it on purpose, its simply unknown to them, and the regs support it. With the other hunting disciplines within the state, poor tactics and handling of game is not only condemned by the community, but regulations are in place to strictly prevent.

Did not know there was C&R in hunting. Do they shoot the deer with rubber bullets? ;-)

Posting signs about the proper way to C&R assumes that the anglers will stop to read the signs and then apply the content of the signs. There are signs on Spring Creek about the presence of New Zealand mud snails and how to stop the spread of invasives. Many anglers that I've talked to while fishing there are oblivious to the presence of the snails, despite the signs.