Legacy Sediments Projects

[JeffP]

I had posted a bit ago about the big project planned for Hammer Creek. I signed up to volunteer and hope to do some testing in the near future. Doc Fritchey TU is running it and it sounds like a great project in a really good location. I know some seemed to react to Fishsticks posts about wild browns interfering with brook trout restoration. I am anxious to see how this project plays out as it sounds like helping the natives is definitely part of the plan. The reason I like the project is because it is a big one and in such a key area. I'm still finding out about the project, so as I learn more I will post. My goal is to get students involved from school that I teach at. One has already volunteered.

As I was telling by brother about the project, he said the legacy sediments projects is just awesome and that Clay Township (Lancaster County) just spent a bunch of grant money on an awesome project. I just hoped it wasn't where I just saw work done. Unfortunately it was. It is on lower Middle Creek on Brunnervile Road not far from where the Segloch dumps in. It was conducted at a ridiculously small place right on the downstream side of the bridge. There was a great hole to begin with and all they seemed to do was shave a bit of soil away and bolster the bank with that nasty limestone rock. Looks terrible, the whole is worse, and couldn't possibly be doing anything for the health of the stream. He's been a township superviser before, and has fought for a lot of environmental projects. I told him this seems like a total waste of money and there were plenty of stretches that MC could have really benefitted from. He said it was the only place they could find to do it. I don't know a ton about these projects, but it sure seems like money should be pooled and strategic locations should be identified. In talking with Russell Collins from DFTU, I found that a number of these projects are in the works. I was going to check out one somewhere on the headwaters of the Cocalico.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I had posted a bit ago about the big project planned for Hammer Creek. I signed up to volunteer and hope to do some testing in the near future. Doc Fritchey TU is running it and it sounds like a great project in a really good location. I know some seemed to react to Fishsticks posts about wild browns interfering with brook trout restoration. I am anxious to see how this project plays out as it sounds like helping the natives is definitely part of the plan. The reason I like the project is because it is a big one and in such a key area. I'm still finding out about the project, so as I learn more I will post. My goal is to get students involved from school that I teach at. One has already volunteered.

As I was telling by brother about the project, he said the legacy sediments projects is just awesome and that Clay Township (Lancaster County) just spent a bunch of grant money on an awesome project. I just hoped it wasn't where I just saw work done. Unfortunately it was. It is on lower Middle Creek on Brunnervile Road not far from where the Segloch dumps in. It was conducted at a ridiculously small place right on the downstream side of the bridge. There was a great hole to begin with and all they seemed to do was shave a bit of soil away and bolster the bank with that nasty limestone rock. Looks terrible, the whole is worse, and couldn't possibly be doing anything for the health of the stream. He's been a township superviser before, and has fought for a lot of environmental projects. I told him this seems like a total waste of money and there were plenty of stretches that MC could have really benefitted from. He said it was the only place they could find to do it. I don't know a ton about these projects, but it sure seems like money should be pooled and strategic locations should be identified. In talking with Russell Collins from DFTU, I found that a number of these projects are in the works. I was going to check out one somewhere on the headwaters of the Cocalico.

Hey Jeff do you have access to the land or is it public? Would you take me and show me I’d be curious to see? I also am going to see the legacy sediment removal project on brubaker soon.

 

[JeffP]

Hammer Creek Watershed Project Update - DFTU

One of the largest conservation projects in the history of the Doc Fritchey Chapter is slowly coming to fruition on Hammer Creek.

dftu.org

Fish sticks here is the link. I just got involved 2 weeks ago by filling out their volunteer form and I missed the stream walk last Saturday because I got training to do stream testing from the Conservation district. For the Hammer I am on the list to help with groundwater level testing and temperature testing and they are going to contact me with further information. Russell Collins contacted me almost immediately. It looks like their chapter does a lot! You would probably want to contact him or as soon as I'm involved I will ask.

 

[pcray1231]

Trying to get involved myself. Have spoken with Fishsticks about it.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Trying to get involved myself. Have spoken with Fishsticks about it.

I would love for you guys to come on stream survey day and hear about the benefits of this technique allowing the ground water to use that gravel basal layer again instead of flowing overland on legacy sediments can be very powerful thermally speaking. It’s interesting stuff.

 

[JeffP]

Well, I emailed about coming the 22nd not realizing it was a Friday. I will see what I can do! I plan on doing my first survey tomorrow morning for the Lancaster County Conservation District on the Hammer at the county park below the pumping station. I doubt I could use Lancaster County's equipment for Lebanon County.

 

[pcray1231]

Yep, plan to come. I usually work 4 hrs on Friday's, get off at 11. So would come after that. But I have lots of vacation and may be able to just take the day off, depending what it looks like. Will let ya know next week.

 

[sarce]

I had not seen all the plans for the upper Hammer restoration yet, and it looks really awesome. That drone footage showing the degraded upper reaches speaks volumes. It makes me feel as if the true potential of the stream is still largely untapped.

 

[JeffP]

I agree. When you look at the devastation and there is still hope and a pretty good fishery, it's kind of hard to believe. I was curious about Elk Creek in Center County. I haven't fished that for a while but some good big brookies and browns mixed together but always thought it was mostly brooks. Then the posting and the big rainbows hit. Just wondering how its brookies are doing. It might be a good area to study.

 

[JeffP]

It starts freestone then sinks into limestone. Kind of the opposite of Hammer.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Codorus Creek Wetland & Stream Bank

This bank is the first wetland/stream mitigation bank in south-central Pennsylvania. Wetland and stream credits from this bank satisfy mitigation requirements in the PA State Waterplan Subbasin #7…

res.us

At this link there are pictures and videos of a large legacy sediment/ floodplain restoration project in york co. This approach has not been used to any significant level on a wild trout stream to my knowledge.

 

[troutbert]

I would love for you guys to come on stream survey day and hear about the benefits of this technique allowing the ground water to use that gravel basal layer again instead of flowing overland on legacy sediments can be very powerful thermally speaking. It’s interesting stuff.

Do you have more details on this? Does rainfall and snowmelt actually flow overland, and not move down through the legacy sediment?

The legacy sediment that I've seen has been light non-cohesive material with a lot of sand and silt. Water moves easily through such material.

The only exception is that in some cases, not all, I've seen a clay layer below this light material. I don't know about the origin of this clay layer.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Troutbert, there are examples of these projects where existing conditions have shown streams and the floodplain are perched above the natural gravel basal area, also others where the stream channel has cut below that same layer and basically drains the entire valley floor. RES and Land Studies both have a lot of information on their websites.

In my opinion there has not been a great effort of presenting information of the thermal response of these systems. The groundwater interaction, expansive floodplain wetlands and reduction of peak stormflows has been impressive to observe post construction. The importance of floodplain reconnection can not be understated.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Do you have more details on this? Does rainfall and snowmelt actually flow overland, and not move down through the legacy sediment?

The legacy sediment that I've seen has been non-cohesive material with a lot of sand and silt.

Reid garner of Landstudies and Dave and Jeff from DEP wetlands dept. told Me when water moves through the fracture pattern or spaces in rock formations that it goes down and moves in the gavel basal layer of the valley but If it hits legacy sediment it can up well go overland and warm.

 

[troutbert]

If any of you legacy sediment nerds gets in the Spring Creek area, and want to look at the legacy sediments upstream of the McCoy Access area, just let me know. There are steep vertical banks where you can see the profile. These steep banks are downstream a ways from the bend at the gas station. Near the most upstream cross vane. Just below a group of large willow trees.

Just above where the dam used to be, I estimate that the legacy sediment is about 9 feet above what was the normal floodplain elevation. This tapers out, getting thinner as you go upstream, but it's still several feet thick at the bend near the gas station.

There are some interesting things to see and ponder there.

 

[Fish Sticks]

If any of you legacy sediment nerds gets in the Spring Creek area, and want to look at the legacy sediments upstream of the McCoy Access area, just let me know. There are steep vertical banks where you can see the profile. These steep banks are downstream a ways from the bend at the gas station. Near the most upstream cross vane. Just below a group of large willow trees.

Just above where the dam used to be, I estimate that the legacy sediment is about 9 feet above what was the normal floodplain elevation. This tapers out, getting thinner as you go upstream, but it's still several feet thick at the bend near the gas station.

There are some interesting things to see and ponder there.

In state college spring creek, I was just up there fishing the grannoms on sat. I always love to see legacy sediment sites because it’s so exciting how impactful Zoe of those projects seem they can be. I don’t know a lot about Fluvial geomorphology or hydrology but TNC had a Fluvial Geomorphologist who is super nice and knowledgeable and she told me the benefits to hydrology/water temp can be enormous. And the reduction in downstream sediment transport can be amazing from what I have heard as well. They are expensive but the justification that has been explained to me is powerful thermal impact and scary large improvement in your TMDL’s

 

[lycoflyfisher]

You seem to be great with google and finding scholarly articles. If you find any good ones with meaningful data and analysis on the thermal response of a stream where a forested riparian area is cut down and bulldozed to facilitate legacy sediment removal and floodplain restoration, I would love to see it.

As I mentioned before, there are numerous benefits of this design approach in certain watershed types. The concept of ground water recharge and interaction sounds great in the form of thermal benefits, but I have not seen much literature on that topic.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I had a call not to long ago to discuss best application of this technique with its creator Dr. Merritts. We discussed application of the technique and some of the differences of LSR vs natural channel design. Did not cover the thermal stuff as much but let me ask her I will send you what ever she has to share.

 

[JeffP]

You seem to be great with google and finding scholarly articles. If you find any good ones with meaningful data and analysis on the thermal response of a stream where a forested riparian area is cut down and bulldozed to facilitate legacy sediment removal and floodplain restoration, I would love to see it.

As I mentioned before, there are numerous benefits of this design approach in certain watershed types. The concept of ground water recharge and interaction sounds great in the form of thermal benefits, but I have not seen much literature on that topic.

Is it common to cut down a lot of trees for this kind of work? I guess I'm used to thinking these projects are on farmland.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Is it common to cut down a lot of trees for this kind of work? I guess I'm used to thinking these projects are on farmland.

I’m not sure if it is or not I’ve seen a few of these projects but actually never asked if trees were present. I know practioners really like shrubs as riparian buffers in these projects but I would like to see more trees because a forested wet land will have more of a temperature benefit. The reason they do this they found seeds for certain plants in the gravel basal layer after excavating down. With climate change and amphibians that rely on wetlands and cold water fish being some of most vulnerable native tree species are my preference.