Leader question

[boychick]

I normally use a Modified Harvey Slack leader tapered to 5x or 6x for dry fly fishing. This works well for most dry fly fishing, except for the green drake. I've used the "nymphing" version of this leader tapered to 4x before for the green drake, but it still twists sometimes.

Should I be using a 3x or 2x leader? Is there a Harvey Slack Leader formula tapered to 3x or 2x?

Thanks guys!

 

[afishinado]

boychick wrote:
I normally use a Modified Harvey Slack leader tapered to 5x or 6x for dry fly fishing. This works well for most dry fly fishing, except for the green drake. I've used the "nymphing" version of this leader tapered to 4x before for the green drake, but it still twists sometimes.

Should I be using a 3x or 2x leader? Is there a Harvey Slack Leader formula tapered to 3x or 2x?

Thanks guys!

Contrary to popular belief, you can catch trout on heavier leaders. Big flies like green drakes need to be fished on heavier leaders to turn them over and prevent spinning and twisting.

Here is the Harvey formula:

Modified Harvey Slack leader Formula for Dry Flies
Diameter # Test X Rating
Type of Mono
Length
.017 20 LB. Maxima Chameleon 10"
.015 15 LB. Maxima Chameleon 18"
.013 12 LB. Amnesia Green 18"
.010 8 LB. 1x Maxima Chameleon 18"
.009 6 LB. 2x Maxima Chameleon 18"
.008 5 LB. 3x Maxima Ultragreen 12"
.007 4 LB. 4x Maxima Ultragreen 18"
.006 3 LB. 5x Maxima Ultragreen 24-30"

Try extending the first section to 12" and the next 4 sections to 20". End with a 28" tippet of 3x giving you a 10' 3x leader. See how it casts a GD fly and adjust from there. Good luck

 

[troutpoop]

Depending on the pattern I'm throwing for Drakes I'll either be on 4X or 3X. Most often I have to use 3X but sometimes I can get away with 4.

 

[fter]

I fish drakes with 1x. I don't often fish below 3x. I don't notice any trout giving me a funny look. I'm pretty convinced that the tippet sizing system is an elaborate marketing scheme.

 

[wbranch]

fter wrote;

I fish drakes with 1x. I don't often fish below 3x.

Isn't it difficult to get a 3X tippet through the eye of a #20 olive or #22 trico?

 

[fter]

For tricos, I drop it to 5x. That's the only exception really. Size 18 early spring olives get fished with 3x, and I haven't seen an issue.

 

[wbranch]

Size 18 early spring olives get fished with 3x, and I haven't seen an issue.

Interesting. I think I'll try it this week on the Delaware.

 

[fter]

I advocate for everyone to do so. I've ran this system for probably four or five years now, and the only differences that I've really seen are that I don't lose flies in trees nearly as often, fish really don't break you off and you can pull them in and shorten the fight and the amount of stress applied, and your wallet likes you a lot more because you don't need to by six different spools of tippet that all do the same thing.

 

[troutpoop]

I would think getting a good drag free drift would be difficult. Possibly Rio Supple Flex or some other similar tippet would be of assistance.

 

[fter]

I've got a cheap spool of some standard Orvis stuff, and it works fine. I'm much more of a believer that a good drift comes from the cast and presentation over the tippet that you're throwing. But again, what works for me may not work for the next guy.

 

[afishinado]

What works for me as far as tippet sizes:

Nymphing:

4X for down and dirty nymphing on the bottom. I really floss the rocks and light tippet would cause way too many break-offs and/or retying because of abrasion of the line. As a side note, I use fluro tippet because it is more abrasion resistant then regular nylon mono.

5X for smaller nymphs in lower water and 6x only for midge larva and smaller zebras.

Streamers:

3X or heavier tippet for bigger meat flies. No need to go light.

Dries:

I've found the tippet size times 4 + 1 works fine as a general guideline:

Size 8 fly = 8/4=2 +1= 3X
Size 10 fly = 10/4=2.5 +1= 3X or 4X
Size 12 fly = 12/4=3 +1= 4X or 5X
Size 14 fly = 14/4=3.5 +1= 5X
Size 16 fly = 16/4= 4+1= 5X
Size 18 fly = 18/4= 4.5+1= 5X or 6x
Size 20 fly = 20/4= 5+1= 6x
Size 22 fly = 22/4= 5.5+1= 6x
Size 24 fly = 24/4= 6+1= 6X or 7x
Size 26+ fly = 7X
8X = :roll:

5X tippet most frequently used for size 12-18 dry flies, aka the vast majority of dry fly fishing.

Works for me.

 

[boychick]

This is great thanks guys!

 

[wbranch]

I have been throwing streamers on the WB of the Delaware since the spring of 2002. Before that I did it once in awhile. Then I began to put some thought into it and have done very well. I never use a tippet lighter than 2X and prefer 0X or 1X. I have caught a bunch of 20" - ?? trout and they never said "Oh, the tippet is to heavy".

 

[fter]

That's my thinking as well. I want to say George Harvey did an experiment that consisted of drifting live beetles on varying sizes of line up to 80lb test, he claimed that it didn't matter as long as there was no drag in the drift. This was off of a bridge to rising trout on Spruce, but I do think there's a point to be made.

 

[3oh4]

Olives and 3X... read that and I chuckle. Every board has the debate and each side will always be right in some regard.

The age old debate: "... its the drift not the tippet".

I don't think some people realize that its not that a heavy tippet is easier to see (which obviously it is) but when you use to heavy a tippet on a fly it can restrict the fly to being too stiff and not act naturally in the current (nymphing and on top)

Maybe I'm just wrong but I believe the tippet size is a huge advantage on "smart" fish. I also don't think people realize just how strong tippet is compared to 10-30 years ago. 6 and 7X matched with these modern fly rods such as a Sage ESN or One is probably comparable to the 2 and 3X's of the past decades. Sure I can go to big tailwaters and throw heavy tippet and catch fish, but the streams that are tough - I dare not nymph below 6X majority of the time.

Since last June (not counting streamer fish), My four biggest browns nymphing or dry fly fishing have all come on 7X ironically. Two 22"s, a 19" and a 18". Two of those on top, two of those nymphed, yea 7X!
< Is it the tippet? Or just coincidence?

 

[mcwillja]

3x tippet for small olives on gin clear water with low flows on any branch of the delaware isn't going to happen i don't think.