Just starting

troutmagnet

troutmagnet

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Joined
May 16, 2011
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if i was going to start tying, what nymph would be good to start on. I like to use hairs ears, pt, and copperjohns. Which one would be easier/better to tie. Thanks
 
troutmagnet wrote:
if i was going to start tying, what nymph would be good to start on. I like to use hairs ears, pt, and copperjohns. Which one would be easier/better to tie. Thanks
Click to expand...

I think you should staqrt with hare's ears, pts and copper johns then. Once you make them, they become easier. Familarity breeds something or another.

Although, in my very humble and understated opinion, the CJ is stupidly complex and requires you mixing epoxy and who can be bothered? Its one thing when you're paying Sri Lankans for the pleasure of making them for you and its $1.50 whether its a CJ or a HE, but once it comes to you to start making htis nonsense its all out the door because the novelty of tying them is quickly lost while you're mix mix mixing your 5 min epoxy thinking, "hey, i could be doing something more interesting like lashing nonsense to a hook and devising up clever names for it instead of mix mix mixing this stupid expoxy, i'll never do this again coz i can just make bastardized PTs with some wire and BAM! i'm never doing this again."

Anyways, make what you want to use. They become easier. Otherwise, its my opinion vs JayL and I say PTs are stupid hard and he says he can't tie HEs and who's right? WHO'S RIGHT!?!

So, yeah. Hare's Ears. And Pheasant Tails. And Maybe Copper Johns til you get tired of mixing glue. Practice makes them easy.

Oh, and if you're trying to save money (haha!) then I humbly suggest just buying what you need for each pattern in turn lest you end up with the American Museum of Natural History in your den. Which'll happen eventually, but you should make it an organic thing rather than just walking down the aisles thinking, "this is pretty, and this is pretty,a nd i have no idea what this is, but what a neat lookin' feather."
 
You're forgetting prince's! So far that's been my go-to this season.

But, instead of the hen hackle for the collar do a cdc collar.
 
I always thought the PT was easier to tie than the HE, but neither are too terribly difficult. YouTube makes things easy to learn now a days.
 
Hare's ear was the first fly I learned to tie, followed by the blacknose dace and woolly bugger, neither the HE or PT are horribly involved to tie, and either would be a great place to start, the Copper John is a bit of a PITA for a beginner, but also not horribly involved, I just wouldn't start out trying those. Start out with the hare's ear, then move to the pheasant tail, and to hone your skills, try some basic streamers like a Mickey Finn, Blacknose Dace, Woolly Bugger and Clouser Minnow. I'm self-taught, and those were my starting point, just because they're fairly simple and really help you build up the confidence for the more complicated stuff. Just be patient and keep at it and you'll be fine.
 
i think im goin to buy all the stuff to tie a pt first and get the hang of that.
Thanks
 
I'd agree that the Hare's Ear and Pheasant Tail would be good for starts. The Copper John would be a more difficult fly.
 
troutmagnet wrote:
i think im goin to buy all the stuff to tie a pt first and get the hang of that.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Good choice. Go to a fly shop and get good materials, and you will do fine. And remember you can always change up the pt's to keep it interesting and fun. I tie the smaller ones on emerger hooks. You can do flashbacks, use different color ice dub instead of peacock, use hen for legs, bead heads, soft hackles...it never ends!

Just remember though, the only way to get better is to tie, tie, tie!
 
Am I oversimplifying the Copper John? Why is it more complex? Brown biots, copper wire, peacock herl, thin skin. Done. Am I missing something?
 
gochs wrote:
Am I oversimplifying the Copper John? Why is it more complex? Brown biots, copper wire, peacock herl, thin skin. Done. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Epoxy and partridge.
 
I don't put legs on a copper john, just me. But apparently I missed the part on every copper john youtube video at the end where they add a dab of epoxy. touche, sir.
 
Gochs,
I think the reason the CJ is more difficult is mainly due to the fly's design. The abdomen is made of solid, close wrapped wire which requires a slow and meticulous wrapping process to insure that the wire turns are tight and but not overlapping. By contrast, the HE and PT utilize ribbing in which there is much more room for error and fur or other body materials are encouraged to poke thru between the wire/tinsel.
 
i would start with the hares ear then the PT and if you really like the copper john i would just bastardize the pt and use more wire personally the copper john to me is as useless as a san juan worm.....i never catch anything on those but i tie them.....
 
OK thanks, and what about midges, like zebra midges how easy are they to do
 
troutmagnet wrote:
OK thanks, and what about midges, like zebra midges how easy are they to do
Click to expand...

Very easy...thread, wire and a bead. You can tie them as emergers, but the basic midge is a quick and easy tie.
 
ok thanks, and wat would be all the basic tools to start, i no the vise, bobin and whip finisher....
 
gfen wrote:
troutmagnet wrote:
if i was going to start tying, what nymph would be good to start on. I like to use hairs ears, pt, and copperjohns. Which one would be easier/better to tie. Thanks
Click to expand...

I think you should staqrt with hare's ears, pts and copper johns then. Once you make them, they become easier. Familarity breeds something or another.

Although, in my very humble and understated opinion, the CJ is stupidly complex and requires you mixing epoxy and who can be bothered? Its one thing when you're paying Sri Lankans for the pleasure of making them for you and its $1.50 whether its a CJ or a HE, but once it comes to you to start making htis nonsense its all out the door because the novelty of tying them is quickly lost while you're mix mix mixing your 5 min epoxy thinking, "hey, i could be doing something more interesting like lashing nonsense to a hook and devising up clever names for it instead of mix mix mixing this stupid expoxy, i'll never do this again coz i can just make bastardized PTs with some wire and BAM! i'm never doing this again."

Anyways, make what you want to use. They become easier. Otherwise, its my opinion vs JayL and I say PTs are stupid hard and he says he can't tie HEs and who's right? WHO'S RIGHT!?!

So, yeah. Hare's Ears. And Pheasant Tails. And Maybe Copper Johns til you get tired of mixing glue. Practice makes them easy.

Oh, and if you're trying to save money (haha!) then I humbly suggest just buying what you need for each pattern in turn lest you end up with the American Museum of Natural History in your den. Which'll happen eventually, but you should make it an organic thing rather than just walking down the aisles thinking, "this is pretty, and this is pretty,a nd i have no idea what this is, but what a neat lookin' feather."
Click to expand...

I loathe tying HE too. God, do I loathe it. Every time I try to tie one it makes me feel like a Neanderthal. I just can't get it. Tying PT are cake though. I can crank out about 4 different variety in record time.
 
troutmagnet wrote:
ok thanks, and wat would be all the basic tools to start, i no the vise, bobin and whip finisher....
Click to expand...

So, here's the deal. You need like a handful of basic tools from an actual fly shop. Two of these are optional, but just save yourself the effort and buy them.

Bobbin: The thing that you run the thread through. Buy a ceramic one. Yes it costs more, yes its worth it. You're new, right? Give yourself every advantage.
Scissors: Buy a nice set, if you can. Dr. Slick tends to be very well regarded and can be found cheap enough.
Hackle pliers: There's about a billion different styles. You'll have one of each eventually. I think the English style are probably most versatile. You can buy those electric clips at Radio Shack, but you won't. Or, you will, and hate it. Buy an English style to start, I like the smaller ones. That's just me.
Dubbing needle: You could make your own, but spend the $4. Its nicer. Trust me. Solid heft, pokey, doesn't roll. Its a simple pleasure.
Whip finisher: There's two kinds, the Materelli and the who-cares-because-it-sucks-unless-you're-an-old-dude. You could learn to whip tie with your fingers, but again, why make the learning curve steeper?
Hair stacker: Depending on your flies of choice, maybe not neccessary.
OK, so that's the low end stuff, the other thing is the big one time investment, a vise. Spend as much as you want, but you can go cheap.
 
Good quality tools, great prices.

http://flyshack.com/DisplayCategory.aspx?CatID=601

Their scissors are a real bargain!
 
as to tools, all you really need is a vise, a bobbin and a good pair of scissors. I've never used a whip finisher and I doubt I ever will (I learned to whip-finish by hand from the get-go), a bodkin and a dubbing brush are nice to have, but not necessary, as are dubbing twisters and hackle pliers, but you could also live without those. When you get into dries, a hair stacker and hackle gauge are a must, but not for these nymphs. Here's my tool list(*=necessary):

Griffin Oddessey vise*(brand is your choice, Griffins are my preference)
small, large and magnum Griffin hair stackers
Fine, arrow*, large and bass/saltwater scissors (don't remember the brand)
3 ceramic bobbins*
3 standard bobbins
2 materials bobbins
dubbing twister
steel and nylon dubbing brushes
Griffin Hackle Gauge
JS fly tying garb bag (Not necessary, but I'd recommend one to keep your tying station neat)


I'd also recommend some kind of desk lamp, I just have a cheap "organizer lamp" from walmart.
 
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