How to know what they’re eating?

[tddeangelo]

I was at the Tulpehocken this past Friday evening. Sporadic tan caddis hatch and sporadic midge hatch but not much being taken off the top.

Some fish broke the surface but they weren’t pulling off flies/adults… seemed like swirls for emergers.

I tried all my caddis emergers. Not a hit.

Tried a hare’s ear and about anything else subsurface and nada.

I saw some fish flashing down near bottom too (water was maybe 2-3’ deep with gravel bottom and an occasional small boulder).

Not sure what they were eating, or what to do with that info… any suggestions?

I was watching one really big brown lay all but on the bed of the stream behind a rock the size of a small microwave oven. He’d come to the top to roll and grab something apparently right below the surface. He did that maybe 5 times in an hour. Fish were somewhat active all through the pool but nothing at all in my fly box seemed to be of interest to any of them.

Any tips/suggestions?

 

[Tigereye]

Somedays they are just picky SOBs. If you think you have the fly nailed down go down a size or if not throw them something completely off the wall, maybe a stimulator, beetle or royal Wulff. Their like kids, they will choose a snickers bar over a ribeye.

If that doesnt solve it change your presentation. You said you saw flashes underneath and some swirls. Did you try swinging a wet fly. Another good technique in your situation is the leisenring lift. To long to go into detail here but you can Google it.

Lastly DRAG. Something about your presentation was off. Most likely drag or too large a tippet.

Sorry there really is no easy answer. We all experience those days. It's how we learn.

 

[hooker-of-men]

How were you fishing your emergers?

There is sometimes a good deal of space to play between what they are eating and what will entice them to eat. In your scenario, my first instinct would not have been finesse but rather to drown the dry caddis that I would have had on anyway for the hatching bugs. At about 45 degrees downstream, I'll pull the line tight and sink the fly. Then I'll drag/swing the fly subsurface across the stream in front of the fish faces more like I'm presenting a wet fly.

This is emerger-esque, but it feels and gets takes almost more like swinging a bugger/streamer. Fish will often get excited and chase the submerged fly even though it's not coming up from the bottom like a natural, and then they hook themselves on the taut line.

 

[hooker-of-men]

Tigereye posted while I was writing. What they said.

 

[tddeangelo]

I was throwing the emergers 45 deg upstream of where I knew there to be fish and dead drifting them down… remember… I’m relearning all of this….

 

[hooker-of-men]

Oh, absolutely. I'm of the opinion that I'm always learning and experimenting.

I asked the emerger question because what I described is counterintuitive to many common emerger techniques in which you're essentially nymphing / raising the fly from the bottom (e.g. Leisenring). Drowning the fly at the end of the swing results in fishing roughly the same lower area of the water column but coming from above rather than below. Couldn't say why it works or that it always does, but it works for me frequently when fish are rising and ignoring or stop taking duns.

 

[tddeangelo]

Hmmm....I never thought of that. An emerger would be rising in the water column, not sinking. Dead drifting it would at best be neutral, but likely slowly descending, so that probably looks off to the fish.

Unless I'm overthinking it...

 

[DGC]

Sounds like all too many of my own trips. By this time of year the easy fishing on C&R streams is done. I would focus on less pressured water that others find a pain to access, where the trout may have been last caught weeks ago instead of yesterday. And by the way, I might know exactly what bug trout are taking and still get snubbed.

But the fly and presentation alternatives already mentioned are perfectly reasonable ploys as well. You can usually pick off a couple if they are actively feeding.

 

[tddeangelo]

Another angler fished the pool below where I was and hooked two in about a 20-25 min, so there was a way. I just wasn't using it!

 

[redietz]

Hmmm....I never thought of that. An emerger would be rising in the water column, not sinking

On the other hand, some ovipositing (egg-laying) caddis come from the top and swim vigorously. I once had to throw away a pair of waders after fishing the Tully -- it was literally covered with caddis eggs, all laid underwater. Don't assume that what you saw were emergers.

 

[tddeangelo]

I guess that’s my question…. What else should/could be tried in that scenario?

 

[pcray1231]

1. The Tully can be tough. Pressured fish, slow water. Being in faster water helps a ton, its often the difference between frustration and catching em.

2. So many guys trying to match the hatchx, they've seen 1000 size 16 caddis variety and are inspecting everything about them. Don't forget, they're stockers. I've had days where everyone was frustrated, and I throw on a sucker spawn and clean up, lol. Buggers for the browns. Sometimes, especially with stockers, the best way to match a hatch is to not match the hatch!

3. The Tully is FULL of suckers. I've seen fish flashing on the bottom a lot of times. Usually, they're suckers.

4. What you're describing could be emergers, but usually with caddis emergers you see some really splashy rises too as they chase them to the surface, sometimes even leaping. I certainly don't know what they were taking, but unbeknowest to many, the Tully does have a sizable sulpher population. You probably woulda seen some of the bugs, but, the description of fish behavior is pretty typical for sulpher emergers. They are swimming nymphs, and swim to the surface as nymphs, before breaking out of their shucks onto the surface. Even before the proper hatch starts, those nymphs swim around near the surface. I will often tie nymphs on dry fly hooks and drop a nymph from a sulpher dun imitation. Either floating it or keeping it an inch or so below the surface. If late in the evening, possibly spinners too. But also possible they were midging, especially if you were in the slow water.

 

[KELORGO]

I fished Reber’s bridge Saturday evening. Any chance your the guy who just started fly fishing April 30? I had much the same experience as you, and actually joked with another angler that we “killed the caddis hatch” when we tied them on our lines. I tried several sizes and colors of caddis with no luck. I also tried drowning the caddis at the end of the drifts As others have suggested, with no luck. Sometimes when you drown a fly at the end of the draft, and then lift up to recast it’s simulates an emerger emerging to the surface of the water and the trout kill them. If you actually fished Saturday night, I might have been the guy below you who caught two in a few minutes. Four of the five I caught Friday were on nymphs (pheasant tail with orange hot spot collar got 3, hares ear caught 1). Right after the two other angers left and it turned to dusk, I switched to about a size 20 or 22 dry fly midge that was totally black. I caught a nice rainbow on the second or third cast. They were sipping, and sometimes slurping black midges. They even do this in January and February on the Tulley. Lots of suckers at Reber’s, and they do flash, but trout were working nymphs Saturday evening for sure. As somebody noted, it’s MUCH easier to catch some pressured trout in faster water then it is in slower water, since they have much more time to examine your fly in slow water, and then refuse it. Fishing for stocked, pressured trout is definitely not over for year. As I said, I got 5 at Reber’s Bridge Saturday and I got 9 there one day last week. I’d suggest sticking with nymphs (trout eat at least 90 percent of their diet under water), and if you can’t see what they are eating on top throw an all black, tiny dry fly, size 20 or smaller. Lift your line if a trout rises anywhere near where you think your fly is floating. Hope this helps. KELORGO

 

[greywolf]

The Tully gets a large amount of fishing pressure every day and I have had yo downsize fly size to get strikes on slow days. Size 18 will get strikes on days a 14 is consistently ignored

 

[Tigereye]

This is a short but interesting video. You may have the right fly with no drag but still spooking fish with a "greased leader". I have always greased my leader and usually don't have issues due to the choppier waters I like to fish. At times especially low flow periods I get alot of refusals and chalk it up to drag, tippet size, fly selection or any other good excuse I can come up with.

I never considered using fluorocarbon tippet because it "sunk" and conventional wisdom said not to use it with dry flies. I will reconsider that stance next time I struggle with dries.

Always learning.

 

[Bamboozle]

This is a short but interesting video. You may have the right fly with no drag but still spooking fish with a "greased leader". I have always greased my leader and usually don't have issues due to the choppier waters I like to fish. At times especially low flow periods I get alot of refusals and chalk it up to drag, tippet size, fly selection or any other good excuse I can come up with.

I never considered using fluorocarbon tippet because it "sunk" and conventional wisdom said not to use it with dry flies. I will reconsider that stance next time I struggle with dries.

Always learning.

I only use fluorocarbon and despite the "sinking thing," it sometimes doesn't sink in the lighter sizes I often choose for dry flies because of handling that transfers skin oils or even residual floatant on to my tippet.

Mono also absorbs water so it sinks too, just not as fast as fluoro. Bottom line, I have no issues with fluoro and dry flies.

That being said, I have a belief (that I am not willing to confirm with scuba gear) that a tippet floating on the surface of water looks like slash across a mirror to a fish looking up. I consider that more unnatural looking than a visible tippet suspended just below the surface.

For that reason when I encounter fussy fish, if the usual adjustments don't do the trick I always treat my tippet with a product like Loon Snake River Mud, real "crick" mud or Gehrke’s XINK.

It often makes a difference.

When it doesn't, I use the usual excuses blaming everyone and everything else except myself...

 

[Tigereye]

When it doesn't, I use the usual excuses blaming everyone and everything else except myself...

"It's the Indian not the arrow"👍 😀

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Been a while since I fished the Tully, but when I did, I found success in those situations by chopping off my emerger, tyin' on a good ole' elk hair caddis, and dropping a PT soft hackle off it. Most of the hook-ups would come on the soft hackle, but some would come hit the EHK too.
Give it a try. Most folks aren't trying soft hackles there, but once I figured this out, I had a lot of hits.