How road salt from winter effects our streams

Interesting. Thanks for posting that. I always wondered how much of the road salt makes it's way into some of our streams. I'm just happy that most of the wild streams I fish are pretty far away from roads that get salted, so no real worry of them being affected.
 
It's really simple...

Stop FRIKKIN' trying to make winter road conditions like summer road conditions by constantly plowing, ripping up the road surface and throwing tons of salt down.

Leave some snow on the road surface like they did when I was a kid (and do in other states & Europe) and folks will buy snow tires or use chains and SLOW THE F DOWN.

You'll have less accidents, less roads to resurface, less overtime pay for plow drivers, less salt purchased and less salt damage.

Case in point, in my township which is small and rural they resurfaced my street about 5 years ago. When it snows ANY MORE than a half an inch, the plows are out and make SEVERAL passes.

My street has been repaired TWICE since it was resurfaced five years ago because of all the plowing and all the that salt goes right into an UNT to a Class A stream down at the end of my street.

It's ridiculous...
 
Bam, where did the "Well-known member" credentials come from? lol
 
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Unfortunately, the article doesn't discuss the actual effects on the stream life.
I thought this topic came up a few years a go, and it turned out the impact was much less severe than people think?

I do think the amount of salt should be reduced because of the infrastructure damage it causes.
Rebuilding roads and bridges due to the damage has a measurable impact on streams.
 
It saves them from one weekend of pressure from me each Spring when I clean, wire brush any rust spots, and touch up the frame on my 4Runner. It’ll be two weekends starting this year since we replaced my wife’s unibody Crosstrek with a Bronco (big body on frame one, not the Sport) last Fall. You’re welcome PA wild Trouts, I guess.
 
Swattie87 said:
It saves them from one weekend of pressure from me each Spring when I clean, wire brush any rust spots, and touch up the frame on my 4Runner. It’ll be two weekends starting this year since we replaced my wife’s unibody Crosstrek with a Bronco (big body on frame one, not the Sport) last Fall. You’re welcome PA wild Trouts, I guess.
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I was just forced to buy a new truck as the RAM frame finally rusted through.
No fan of salt.
 
Notice how the switch to liquid salt has rusted vehicles at a faster rate than the old ASM (salt and cinder,). My guess is that the salt gets into streams at a much more acute rate than the ASM.
 
Tigereye said:
Notice how the switch to liquid salt has rusted vehicles at a faster rate than the old ASM (salt and cinder,).
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Not sure I agree with this statement that should have been a question.

First vehicles don't rust rust like they used to regardless of what's put on the roads.
Second, and maybe they just don't do it here but I've only seen liquid calcium chloride used in two ways. 1: Sprayed directly into a loader full of the normal salt (ASM). Then the loader continues to fill the spreader truck until full in a similar manner. 2: On bridges from sprinkler-like devices on bridges equipped with these devices. Not saying they don't but I have never seen or heard of the just the liquid only being applied to roadways.
My understanding (based on direct conversations with PenDot and local municipal officials) is also that the liquid is formulated to leave a residue and run off. Melted snow creating a solution of dissolved rock salt most likely is far more saline than the calcium which works at a lower temp based on its properties not because of a greater concentration.
My unscientific and personal observation is also that the vehicles I do see sporting excess rust are older vehicles.

With that said, in Idaho they used little to no salt. Just cinders in most places. I had no trouble getting around with a rear wheel drive only pickup.

PA drivers are aggressive and careless. Most can't merge on dry pavement. Whatta ya gonna do?
 
Where I live the liquid is sprayed directly on the road all the time without salt or cinders. I don’t know what the liquid is but it is easy to see because it leaves multiple spray lines down the road.

the problem with drivers nowadays is every soccer mom, accountant and kid has a 4WD or AWD vehicle and they fail to understand that while 4WD and AWD gets up and goes really good in the snow and ice it doesn’t help a bit for stopping on snow and ice.
 
Road salts, like calcium chloride and magnesium chloride, involve more complex molecules than sodium chloride and distribute more ions when they dissolve in water, thus lowering the freezing point more effectively. I dont mean to provide a chemistry lesson here. So simply they have 2x the chloride ion than sodium chloride. They are much more effective electrolytes than sodium chloride and thus more corrosive to metal in return.

But that said, and more importantly the effect on streams is that the "liquid salt" is washed away into streams more efficiently also. Streams thereby great a greater "dose" after a rain or snow melt event. The older ASM not only had less concentration of a less efficient salt, the surface area of the salt chystals delayed dissolution and eventual runoff compared to the liquid applications which are almost powderlike after appication.

The sudden dosing of a stream more is taxing to the environment than gradual increases over time.
 
I also appreciate the chemistry lesson. I wondered if the road spray was more corrosive.
 
I wash my car weekly at a car wash that offers underbody wash. No issues with rust.
 
poopdeck said:
the problem with drivers nowadays is every soccer mom, accountant and kid has a 4WD or AWD vehicle and they fail to understand that while 4WD and AWD gets up and goes really good in the snow and ice it doesn’t help a bit for stopping on snow and ice.
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Unfortunately, like other aspects of like people drive selfishly. They go too fast for the conditions and care not about anybody's safety, just that they get where they are going in a hurry.

BTW - I'm an accountant and have an AWD but I don't drive like an azzhole in the snow, ice, rain, or fog. :)
 
I see way more guys in pickups in ditches than soccer moms or accountants.
 
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