Hook to shank proportions on small nymphs

[Broad_Top]

Does anyone take more care on this the smaller the size you go for a given pattern?

I lost some fish last year that I didn't think I should have, so naturally I decided to blame the hooks I used for a given size. That's to say, This year, instead of going down in hook gape (actual size), I'm going to go smaller on the shank first instead.

Example: If I currently tie a given nymph pattern in a 14 1x long shank and a 16 1x long shank, I'm now going to tie the 16 size on a 14 regular shank.

I've heard hook proportions talked about on here in terms of what creates a better hook set, but don't recall specifics. Sometimes the proportions on 1x or 2x hooks in the smaller sizes, 16/18 on down, just don't look like they maximize your chances at getting the hook set. Lotta body in proportion to gape.

Pardon the ramble. Hopefully someone gets what I'm saying and can chime in if they've ever concluded much of anything on this. Thanks.

 

[blueheron]

I know what you're saying but the only conclusion I've come up with is that too much material on the tiny stuff can impede the hookset. I think you're just as likely to get a bad set on a 20 or 22 due to the size, not so much on a 14 or 16.

 

[JeffK]

I use short shank hooks a fair amount for smaller flies. Another approach is one used for low water salmon flies or "anorexic" nymphs. Tie the pattern a size or two smaller than you normally would on the hook. End the abdomen at the point and not further back and scale the whole pattern that way. Looks funny, but works.

 

[lv2nymph]

If you're talking about the thorax area of your flies seem to be closing up the hook gap distance perhaps you are tying the thorax area to large for the hook size your using. Without seeing the fly it's hard to tell. I don't know how long you've been tying, perhaps with the proportions of the fly outa whack this is what's happening. Maybie tying too much material too far past the bend is bumping the hook out? You said...
I've heard hook proportions talked about on here in terms of what creates a better hook set, but don't recall specifics. Sometimes the proportions on 1x or 2x hooks in the smaller sizes, 16/18 on down, just don't look like they maximize your chances at getting the hook set. Lotta body in proportion to gape.
This makes me think you might be tying to large a fly on a given hook size. Maybe I'm not pickin up what you're laying down. Am I close?

 

[Dale49]

We all sometimes use too much material when tying. Nonetheless, on smaller hooks, I bend upwards the hook when in the vise to increase the gap and then bend it slightly to the side to get an off-set. This method has increesed my hook-ups over the past several years with small flies/hooks.

 

[Broad_Top]

Yeah that's kinda what I'm getting at. Thanks for the replies.

I suppose its a little misleading to call something a "size x" in a vacuum. Most of us know about what size is meant. But you could almost tie a "size 14" fly on a size 18 2x long hook, y'know? (Not exact just trying to make my point)

Which makes me think, if there is an optimum gape to shank ratio for hooking trout reliably, particularly as you go down in size, why bother with multiple shank lengths on smaller hooks, say for size 16 on down? Not to mention, when I look at competition style hooks, they always seem to have maximal hook gape.

I guess this is mostly a random musing, but I'm definitely going to step up a hook size before a length for a given "long" pattern from now on. Wondered if anyone else paid attention to this.

 

[Broad_Top]

Dale - that's also an excellent idea and one thing I don't do often enough. Maybe even solve most of the problem?

 

[tyeager]

This past steelhead season I tied quite a few flies on size 16 Dairiki 135's that only had a size 18 fly on it

I seem to always catch the low and clear erie conditions and size 18 flies work better than the 16's but the 18's didn't always get the best hook ups in my opinion

I don't have any scientific data and you can definitely catch larger fish on size 18 hooks, but I personelly have more confidence in the size 16

It seemed to work for me this year and I will probably do it more in the future

 

[Chaz]

Ifyou can catch a trout with a # 24 trico you tied you should be able to catch about anything. So try tying your small flies more sparse, and try using straight eye or up turned eye hooks. That give you a bigger gapwithout going to a different proportioned hook.