High water / Raw sewage in Susky from H-burg

[afishinado]

The higher water levels in the past year + have caused raw sewage to be discharged into the River on a regular basis (150 days / year). Article from PennLive with details >

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2019/07/raw-sewage-was-discharged-into-harrisburg-waterways-on-150-days-last-year.html?fbclid=IwAR1fye8HYoWynvtjhhWY8f_SW_k-f3cZYFFQxXUJ_5At6EPs5MujvACq92g

 

[bigjohn58]

Its common up here on the West Branch around Williamsport. Even at the boat launches they have signs posted saying raw sewage enters the river when it is high.

 

[tomgamber]

Yeah, they do that in Pittsburgh too. All major waterways that accept treated wastewater are probably gong to see untreated waste water going into them during periods of very high precipitation. Otherwise the treatment facility becomes potentially damaged and you'll have untreated waste flowing in until its fixed and the water goes down. Then it won't have all that extra water to dilute the waste. Usually comes in at those big barrel looking things in the river. Not a good time to swim.

 

[RLeep2]

I don't know if it is still the case, but this used to be fairly common during high flow periods for the city of Erie to release untreated discharge into Presque Isle Bay. Millcreek Twp. also did the same, mostly into Walnut Creek, IIRC.

In these situations (and I would imagine the same is true elsewhere in the state), both Erie and Millcreek were operating under consent decrees agreements with DEP that allowed the discharges so long as there was a schedule in place to fix the problems by date certain. And then of course, often times, date certain comes with no fix in place and the courts extend the deadlines.

This stuff has always been pretty common when dealing with cash-strapped municipalities

 

[springer1]

A lot of it caused by people who illegally route their sump pumps into their sewer pipe, thus overloading the treatment plants. There's no reason why rain levels should overflow the sewage treatment capacity ..... maybe storm drains, but not sewage treatment.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

springer1 wrote:
A lot of it caused by people who illegally route their sump pumps into their sewer pipe, thus overloading the treatment plants. There's no reason why rain levels should overflow the sewage treatment capacity ..... maybe storm drains, but not sewage treatment.

Sump pumps are definitely part of the problem in some areas, however in much of the state infrastructure of the stormwater and sewer systems is approaching or may be greater than 100 years old. In many cases completely separating stormwater from sewer lines and the treatment system is difficult and sometimes just as expensive as a brand new plant. There are still many cities and towns that have brick and wood waterlines in some part of their system.

 

[springer1]

..... In many cases completely separating stormwater from sewer lines and the treatment system is difficult ....

What? Are you saying that some municipalities have combined Sewage and Storm Drain systems? That means that rain runoffs fed thru street storm drains are processed in the same manner as sewage ?

I wasn't aware of that - can you provide some examples? The costs for doing that during a minor storm when the system can handle it must be outrageous.

 

[Tigereye]

Happens all the time Springer. I am dealling with one professionally in Carbon Co.

Here is a link to an article about combined sewers in PA. Remember this was state of the art in the early 1900's when most of these were built. Better than sewage in the streets. SLowly but surely they are being adrressed as time an resources allow.

https://whyy.org/articles/the-state-of-sewer-pipelines-in-pennsylvania/

 

[springer1]

Happens all the time Springer. I am dealling with one professionally in Carbon Co.

Here is a link to an article about combined sewers in PA. Remember this was state of the art in the early 1900's when most of these were built. Better than sewage in the streets. SLowly but surely they are being adrressed as time an resources allow.

Wow !! Thanks for the education, it's worse than I thought.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Our nation's infrastructure and specifically our state is severely behind the times. People commonly think of roads and bridges. However, in many locations public drinking water systems (mainly source wells and delivery lines) are just as behind the times as sewage treatment.

 

[afishinado]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
Our nation's infrastructure and specifically our state is severely behind the times. People commonly think of roads and bridges. However, in many locations public drinking water systems (mainly source wells and delivery lines) are just as behind the times as sewage treatment.

Pennsylvania has 1,608 combined sewer outfalls in 39 counties; that’ about 17 percent of all such outfalls in the United States, though it’s important to note Pennsylvania is a large, populous state with extensive infrastructure.

In all, according to the EPA’s 2008 Clean Watersheds Needs Survey (it’s the latest available), Pennsylvania needs nearly $18 billion of investment for sewer infrastructure. The largest chunk of that, nearly $9 billion, is to address CSOs. That only covers problems that needed to be addressed as of 2008, and not the additional issues that are sure to add up in aging systems.

Unfortunately some public drinking systems draw from or are linked to the very places where untreated sewage flows.

It gives new meaning to the phrase "Don't sheet where you [d]eat[/d] drink"

 

[dryflyguy]

Yep
Our domestic water supply company draws from the Ohio river

 

[larkmark]

We constantly hear how more development (shopping centers, housing and condos etc.) will "broaden the tax base" and yet taxes increase. Money is spent to create hiking trails and fancy boat launches because these things attract even more people and are apparently good for local businesses. I guess updating wastewater treatment facilities just isn't sexy. Priorities seem bass ackward.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Without having hard figures in front of me I would venture that some single sewer plant upgrades with significant funding from harrisburg may out spend a decade of hiking trail development and maintenance in pa. I know several of the large sewer plants near me were upgradedto the tune of hundreds of millions, for example the plant in williamsport was rebuilt for $125 million.

 

[sarce]

At the risk of getting too OT, infrastructure needs a massive federal bailout and it ain't coming so long as the country votes for people who cut taxes without bothering to fix wasteful spending. The type of infrastructure issue highlighted by this post is also an environmental issue that affects us anglers (and for that matter, anyone who drinks water). Yes, waste systems and pipe infrastructure are managed at a local level, but the problems are so wipespread as to require federal funds IMO.

 

[larkmark]

From what I have read the federal gov't has reduced contributions to wastewater treatment updates. Won't get into the age old outrage about how much is spent on military vs all other stuff and the insanity of that. Maybe some clever politician could divert some of the huge military budget to update our wastewater treatment plants.

From the report below--

Pennsylvania retains its title as having the most combined sewer overflows (CSO) of any state in the country. CSOs convey both storm
and sanitary sewer flows, resulting in the release of untreated human and industrial waste and other pollutants into the environment

https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ASCE-PA-report_2018.pdf