Hand Tying Leaders and tippet

[Baron]

On the side JerryC and I have discussed this and I mis-placed the thread. So I thought I'd open it up to the whole group.
I fish primarily for species that are not leader-shy so far as I can see. These areas are swamp, stumpy and rocky and so snags are common and so are Pickerel. I'm in a drift boat and am chucking across allot of weeds to get at the fish and I don't want to reveal my presence while unhooking all of my frequent snags. Except for during late winter I prefer heavy leaders and tippet.
I usually use 3-4' of an old cut back bass leader with a tippet ring or mini micro swivel and then usually add 2'-3' of 2x. If the water is clear and not too weedy I'll add some 3x to that. If it is weedy I stop at the 2x.
So far I'm using well snugged double or triple surgeon knots to join the upper pieces. But I am thinking of learning and using blood knots.
I'd sure like to hear of your preferences.

 

[JerryC]

I haven't built a leader in years. Not since I discovered furled leaders.
When I was building them I used the blood knot to connect the pieces. Generally, warm water leaders are less complicated than trout leaders. You can use just a 6 foot piece of mono or flurocarbon. I use that with my sinking line and sometimes my intermediate line. A simple leader might have 4 to 6 pieces of different lb test For example. This might be a little heavy for you. It's an 8 foot leader. I used LeaderCalc2007 to come up with it
29 inches- 30# test(butt section)
24 inches- 17# test I would probably use 20#
10 inches- 16# test
19 inches- 15# test I would probably use 14#
14 inches- 14# test(tippet) I would probably use 12#

There's a lot of info on line on tying leaders. I would think the majority would be how to construct trout leaders, but you should find enough info on warm water/salt water leader construction.

Most times I used the mono or flurocarbon I use with my spinning reels.

 

[Baron]

Funny you should bring that up Jerry. I found 30" and 50" Furled leaders in light medium and heavy.
In the summer I was using a 55" and a 72" furled leaders and I felt that they moved the pads and weeds more than I'd prefer. I'm thinking to use mono with tippet ring and heavy tippet.

 

[JerryC]

I'm not a big fan of tippet rings. I removed them from a couple of furled leaders I brought in the last two years. Most of mine range between 4 and 5 feet. I fish them with 5 to 6 feet of "tippet"

 

[Baron]

I like the tippet rings if they are the super small ones. I'm switching to micro-swivels one at a time.

Quote:"Most of mine range between 4 and 5 feet. I fish them with 5 to 6 feet of "tippet"

Wow Jerry. 9-12 feet? At Shahola? And what tippet.......20lb?

 

[JerryC]

Yep. 20 or 25#. On my 6 wgt. I may have to up it to 40# on my 8 wgt to turn over the big poppers, 4 to 5 inches long, that I plan to fish at Shohola next year. You can see the tippet in the attached picture. Pretty sure it's 25#. Picture's taken at Fairview Lake. Glad I had it on because the bass in my Avatar took that fly a little later and I was able to control the fish and bring it in quickly.

 

[JerryC]

Guess I have to change Avatars. Here's a picture of the bass.

 

[Baron]

Beauty. Very dark top. Most of these fly lines are 20lb+/-???

So if Im using a 25 +/- lb mono for tippet where is the sacrificial link that breaks when you get a "big One"? How do you keep from tearing of the fly line?
I've been using 10 or 20lb in the stumps and was thinking 15- 17 may be better. Sometimes I use 6" of 30lb green braid as a bite tippet. less might be better but 30 is all I have right now.

 

[JerryC]

Baron wrote:

Beauty. Very dark top. Most of these fly lines are 20lb+/-???

So if Im using a 25 +/- lb mono for tippet where is the sacrificial link that breaks when you get a "big One"? How do you keep from tearing of the fly line?
I've been using 10 or 20lb in the stumps and was thinking 15- 17 may be better. Sometimes I use 6" of 30lb green braid as a bite tippet. less might be better but 30 is all I have right now.

Fly lines aren't measure by test like fluorocarbon is. I've been snagged many times using the heavy tippet with furled leaders. The tippet has broken before the furled leader or fly line. I've never had a fly line break or a furled leader. Drop the braid as a bite tippet, it's much limper than 30# fluorocarbon and will probably causes issues with your cast and how the fly lands.

 

[Bamboozle]

I tie my own bass leaders because they are so simple to make. 7 foot long at most with about 5 or 6 sections.

BLOOD KNOTS, with or without a hack... ;-)

24" of butt, usually .025 or .022 Maxima 12" intermediate sections, also Maxima and my standard tippet is 24" of .015 or .013.

2x...?, maybe for trout but about never for warmwater.

No furled leaders, no braid, wire bite tippet if I am fishing for pickerel.

 

[Baron]

Sounds more like a stream trout leader and not a weedy lake leader. I just down-loaded this list and you're going down to 6X with .13.


Line diameter.
vs.
Average breaking strain: 
0.06mm. - 12oz
0.07mm - 1lb 2oz
0.08mm - 1lb 12oz
0.09mm - 2lb
0.10mm - 2lb 6oz
0.11mm. - 2lb 14oz
0.12mm. - 3lb 4oz
0.14mm - 4lb 12oz
0.16mm - 5lb 10oz
0.18mm - 6lb 8oz
0.20mm - 7lb 12oz
0.22mm. - 9lb
0.24mm. - 10lb 4oz
0.26mm. - 11lb 6oz
I have rarely got less than 4x and usually use 2x or 3x.

I would like to tie my own leaders but more like 2 piece or three piece and heavier such as what JC is doing above. I wanted to know about the blood knot because it looks smoother than the surgeons knot.

I will be practicing the blood knot until I can do it naturally.

 

[Bamboozle]

.013" NOT mm.

Last time I checked, the diameter of leader material in the USA was measured in thousandths of an INCH and POUND test. ;-)

.013" is about 20lb test.

A short stiff leader works wonders when it comes to casting big, heavy or wind resistant flies, not to mention making life easier around snags.

 

[Baron]

OOPs. It was a test. You passed, no prize.
So then you are ending up with the equivalent of 2x as I often do. 2X in about as small as I can go where the clinch knot can be tied without lube on the first pull. Above that I find spit is needed as well as extra fidgeting to seat the knot well.
JerryC and I have been talking about this elsewhere all summer and you'd think I'd settle in on one method. For what I'm tossing (Clousers and streamers two sections are fine but when I am using small flies like wet hackles and Dryflies I add tippet down to 4x. That would be rare.
Have you tried a piece of braid for a bite tippet?

 

[Bamboozle]

2X is .009" in diameter and about half the breaking strength or test of the .013" I use.

When it comes to the X system with tippet or leader material, (0X - 8X) if you subtract the X number from 11, you will end up with diameter in INCHES.

So for example, 0X is .011" and 4X is .007" with the breaking strengths a bit harder to figure out. However, 0X has a breaking strength around 15 lbs and the test decreases about 2lb as you get lighter, but that's an APPROXIMATION.