Green Drakes on the Upper Allegheny

[SonofZ3]

I fish the upper Allegheny River (Kinzua Dam down to Warren) for trout quite a bit in the summer, and I ran into something interesting and puzzling a few weeks ago. I was fishing with a close family friend, and trout were rising in the riffle we were working. The only thing I could see coming off were caddis, but my friend was consistently hooking fish on a size 8 western Green Drake fly purchased from Cabellas. This puzzles me. I've never seen a single Green Drake hatch out of the upper Allegheny, and the pattern he was using was MUCH too dark to imitate our Eastern drakes. For some reason the trout just loved it, and I can't really figure out why they would rise so enthusiastically to a fly that imitated a food source they never see. Maybe they took it for the same reason fish take royal wulfs and trudes? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Also, the river is currently about as low as we're likely to see it this year, so if you have a chance, come up and give it a try!

 

[dryflyguy]

You didn't mention what time of day you were fishing.
But maybe there was a hex hatch there - large fly also - and the fish were taking the green drake for it.
They hatch at dusk, and into the night. A green drake, or any large fly, would probably fool them at that time of day. Especially in a riffle

 

[greenghost]

I agree with dryflyguy. It was almost certainly being taken for a hex. Same general size with hexegenia being slightly larger. The whole length of the river is full of them.

 

[JackM]

I would bet money it was being mistaken for "food." Trout don't know what a Green Drake is even on Penn's Creek on June 4. Keep in mind, however, that I have no idea what I am talking about.

 

[afishinado]

Contrary to what we may all believe, a fly need not be an exact imitation of a natural food source for a fish to take it.

Jack you beat me to it...again!

 

[jayL]

Clearly pressured, "educated" wild fish wouldn't take those monstrosities!!!!

:lol:

 

[dryflyguy]

Afish-

Maybe you should try some of those on the little lehigh sunday?

 

[jayL]

dryflyguy wrote:
Afish-

Maybe you should try some of those on the little lehigh sunday?

I have some extended body gray drakes from out west. I'd imagine they would make an acceptable terrestrial pattern. I might have to give it a shot.

 

[JackM]

If I could make it to the trico summit, I'd be tempted to tie on a coffin fly just for poops and giggles.

 

[GreenWeenie]

And it would be funny as hell if you outfished everyone using the coffin fly!

 

[afishinado]

No, I'll stick to trike patterns since Heritage Ed guaranteed everyone at the Jam will catch at least a dozen fish during the hatch or lunch is on him. I don't want to void his warranty.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

afishinado wrote:
No, I'll stick to trike patterns since Heritage Ed guaranteed everyone at the Jam will catch at least a dozen fish during the hatch or lunch is on him. I don't want to void his warranty.

Warranty only applicable for those who have purchased the EXTENDED warranty. ;-)

 

[Fishidiot]

Sono,
I'll second Dryflyguy's opinion as well. The fish were likely keyed on a large, high floating surface forage and hex mayflies seem the likeliest explanation. I don't fish the Allegheny so have no idea what it's like around there but could grasshoppers be an explanation? Does the Big A get white flies? Really, though, I'd say what you saw can be chalked up to one of those head scratchin days that make FFing so fascinating.

As for Afish's wacky patterns on the Lil Lehigh - I'd bet they'll catch trout - and likely some big ones. I've had a lot of trout in Letort fall for a bright orange Wooly Bugger and all sorts of massive, foam monstrosities.

 

[TheDude]

Always remember, trout want a meal. If it's big and they are opportunistic (more likely on a freestoner), there is their meal.

The more we learn about bugs and hatches, the harder it is to think outside the box.

When I was learning how to fly fish and did no yet know the hatches, I had some amazing experiences just like yours that I would never think to try now when I'm "in the zone." One evening on Penns Creek about 10 years ago, I caught 7 trout on a #18 blue wing olive during an hour of what I now know was an obvious March Brown spinner fall. The last trout was a big 18 incher. There were three or four other guys right next to me, and no one else caught more than one or two. I remember them watching me, and I thought it was beginner's luck. Now I realize it was not luck at all, but beginner's innocence. The next day, two different people came up to my campsite to ask what I was using. If only I let that experience define how I now think on the stream. But now, like them, I would never think to try that now that I have more so-called knowledge.

 

[RLeeP]

>>Does the Big A get white flies?>>

Yes, it does. There is a major white fly hatch on the river, which so far as I know, only one fish (a rock bass, in 1967) has ever paid any attention to. And I only know this anecdotally and the guy could have been lying..

What I don't know is if they exist up in the section between the dam and Warren. What with all the thermal and flow rate manipulations, that's weird water. But from Buckaloons down at least to Franklin (and probably beyond), there was always a huge white fly hatch. I've never seen any fish pay it any mind though.


Sylvaneous (Jason) who posts here from time to time spends a lot of time on the river, is a local product and he may know differently about the white fly on the river. And I'd defer to that.
I only know that I've fished through some real white fly blizzards on the river and never saw a rising fish.

In any event, who knows what those fish took the big drake for? Could have been anything. They're trout after all and have brains (depending on the size of the fish) ranging from the size of a pea to the size of a walnut...

 

[greenghost]

Years ago wile attending PSU, I went fishing early in the season on a small limestoner called Cedar Creek (or Run). We were there with our fly fishing gear, but was in the minority, most guys had spinning gear. There was one kid probably about 10 years old, who had a Zebco spincast and old fiberglass rod. But what got our attention was what he was throwing... a giant red and white daredevil spoon. (Pike sized) We chuckled at him and jokingly ask him how the fish were biting. He held up a stringer of about 4 nice fish and a few seconds later, right on queue set the size 4 treble into another unsuspecting fish. We lost it with laughter. So much for the wily old trout.

 

[RLeeP]

That's good stuff, GG..

One of my favorite fishing memories was on Elk Creek (Erie C.) just above PA 98. It was November, maybe 15 years ago, the water was very skinny, but the creek was full of fish. There were guys all through this section doing the 6X tippet, size #20 sucker spawn thing that was popular at the time.
They were hooking a fish every now and then, but not many. To a man, they were talking about how tough the fish were in the clear water and how much finesse was req'd to even have a chance to hook one.

I had my Dad with me that day. He grew up about a mile from where we were fishing, but had never been steelheading. Too busy running coon dogs and crappie fishing. We walked up above the highway bridge a bend or two and I pointed out a pod of about 10 fish to him. He was fishing his standard crappie outfit. Light under slung spincast set-up with 10 or 12 lb. test and a snap swivel. He put on one of his favorite 1/16 oz. smoke-colored crappie jigs and started casting to the fish. He hooked 7 on 9 casts and landed 4 of them.

The guys with the sucker spawn just kinda stood there with their mouths hanging open.

I love this sort of stuff...

 

[SonofZ3]

The first half mile or so below the dam doesn't have much of a whitefly hatch. Caddis and sporadic mayflies are present there, along with heavy hatches of various small diptera. A general rule for hatches on the first 7 miles of the river below the dam is that the farther from the dam you get, the more hatches are in evidence. The Conewango Creek, which flows into the Allegheny in Warren is a complete bug factory, on a good summer night we may find 5 mayflies, 3 or 4 caddis, 3 stoneflies, 3 or 4 midges, and dobsonflies hatching of the Conewango 200 feet from our house. The Allegheny, 3/4 of a mile away might have one third of those same insects hatching. The upper Allegheny does have a decent brown drake hatch, which makes for some nice fishing, but thats been over for a while.

The reason why this occurance puzzled me is the fact that I have had very bad luck in the past fishing flies that just look "buggy" on the river. I've fished bivisibles, small stimulators, ausable wulfs, etc. with almost no reaction from rising fish. A caddis emerger in the right size/color combination has been the ticket for me, so the response to the huge, dark drake suprised me.


Thanks for everyone's input and advice!

 

[pcray1231]

There's a nice hex hatch up there. A "few weeks" ago, based on the date of your post, would have been not too long after that hatch ends. I've witnessed many times where fish retain a "memory" of bugs that are no longer hatching, at least for a few weeks.

I don't know how true this is, but this is how I see it:

You used to have to scrounge around for food and were always hungry. Then you figured out a week or so ago that if you go to this one place, a big juicy steak gets put in front of you at 6 p.m. every day. So you time your day around it, everyday at 6 you're sitting there and waiting for your big steak. You tell all your friends, and suddenly everyone's there at 6 waiting for the steak, and happily eating away at unlimited steaks. Then one day, you're all waiting, but no steaks. Next day, same thing. Eventually, you and your friends stop coming.

What your buddy did was imitate a hex after the hatch had ended, but while the fish were still getting in feeding lanes and looking for them.