Fly vs Bait

[afishinado]

Article discussing the fish catching ability of bait vs. flies. In general I agree with the author about the effectiveness of each way of fishing.

https://troutbitten.com/2021/05/05/fly-vs-bait/

 

[pcray1231]

In general I do too.

I grew up spin fishing, stringing minnows, and all that. And I'm a fly fisherman now, though still take the spinning rod now and again.

Honestly it's about the water itself. Big, deep water favors spinning gear in general. Small water favors flies. Lakes and big rivers - unless they are feeding on top the spinning gear is more effective. Streams and small rivers - in general flies will outperform.

One thing I'm struggling with lately is that I've been doing some kayaking. Mostly in a seated position. I apparantly suck at casting a fly rod like that! But a spinning rod works fine.

 

[Kevin82]

Nice article, thanks
I kinda chuckled at the very first picture of all the newts. Not a good option for bait as Ive learned recently they are mildly toxic and the fish rarely eat them.

Also wanted to mention about finding crayfish in trout stomachs like mentioned in the article. I do taxidermy and a few years ago I had a 17-18" brown to do for a customer. That fish had 7 crayfish in its stomach along with other nymphs and cased caddis. I had a picture on an old phone, but lost the phone while fishing up in NY 2 years ago. It was pretty amazing how much that fish ate.

 

[troutbert]

Does it matter?

Most people fly fish because they enjoy it.

If it was proved that bait fishing, or spinner fishing, has a higher catch rate, I doubt that many flyfishers would switch.

 

[redietz]

I pretty much agree with that article. There's a reason that fly fishing has been around for a couple of thousand years, most of which time people were fishing for food. There's also a reason that it was primarily associated with trout in moving water for all those years. It was simply the most effective means of putting food on the table under those circumstances.

 

[pete41]

speaking mainly from my 30+ years in Montana-big fish -streamers ,lots of average ones -spinning gear,which i never used until my last year there.LOL Mostly its knowing where and when to hit them-and if big,uns are your thing streamers are hard to beat.They are also nerve wreckers-In places like Montana and the Letort and other spring creeks some truly awesome fish will look them over-decide NAH and drop away-you would not believe the size some that did that to me-lol- I wouldn't believe you either.{TIC}

 

[afishinado]

I started spin/bait fishing as a kid as many of us did. At ten years old I was given a fly rod and started to tie flies (I fished and tied badly at first at that age). I fished flies mostly on lakes and ponds for bluegills and small bass. As I grew up in my teens, I spin fished for trout and also brought a fly rod along, just in case the fish were "jumping." As time went on I grabbed the fly rod first and the spin rod stayed in the trunk. Eventually, the spin rod stayed in the basement for trout fishing. I did spin/bait fish for bass for a while longer, but, by my late 20's I only fished flies for all fishing, saltwater included.

I do fish with spin guys and many times out-fish them with flies. But as Pcray wrote above, there are times when the spin rod works best for catching and times when flies are best. And as Troutbert stated above....."who cares."

 

[Lkyboots]

I started fly fishing instead of bait fishing because it was a lot easier and less expensive. I got tired catching night crawlers and lost a bunch of minnow traps. When night crawlers got to $1.50 a doz. I started fishing with flies. I didn't have the hassle of trying to find a bait shop and a couple dozen flies lasted me a long time. I fished Mudler Minnows, Grey Ghosts, Mickey Finns, and Hares ear nymphs. I'd buy whatever flies I could find at the local stores.

 

[Bamboozle]

I fish bait on occasion but only for panfish and bass and even then, I am a devoted circle hook fan to reduce mortality.

When I fished the Susquehanna regularly for Smallies, I could out fish anybody using flies 10-1 fishing night crawlers on a circle hook rig I developed after being humiliated myself fishing lures and watching two guys absolutely slaughter ‘em using stone cats. As collecting stone cats and carrying around a bait bucket was more hassle that I wanted to deal with, I used worms instead. At dusk it was back to the car for the fly rod.

That being said, I respectfully disagree with the author over what CAN be used as bait. I grew up in Delco and fished Section 4 of Ridley Creek regularly. As a kid, I still remember one day fishing directly under the Media Bypass using live nymphs and other critters I found under rocks for bait.

I carefully threaded them on the small gold egg hooks I always carried, as they were the smallest hooks I had at the time. One day I was catching fish left and right and as a result, the worm & salmon egg crowd in a typical display ****** fishing ignorance crowded me.

The funny thing was, despite watching me picking up rocks and baiting my hook with nymphs, they stuck to their guns bait-wise, nudged closer and still were skunked!

Fast forward many years later and I was doing some spin fishing at the Saucon to kill some time when my car was in the shop and I saw a trout rising. I dug around in my spinning tackle bag, found some REALLY small fly hooks I stashed for just such an occasion and managed to thread a HUGH carpenter ant on a hook.

I added a tiny bobber so I could cast it, let it dead drift and I caught that trout!!

These days I no longer run across the guys gracefully drifting small garden worms using a fly or spinning rod, pulling fish out of lies I would target with nymphs. It seems like the only bait fishermen I see are sitting, stubborn and stuck on the old tried and true or Power Bait and a few weeks after the Opening Day, I never see them catching anything.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Pete, I'd like to have at least seen some of those hogs I had a hook in. I can still tell you of the where of setting a hook and having my line just move off . I've caught some big fish over the years ,but those few still stick out. Why would I lie? GG

 

[redietz]

Bamboozle wrote:

That being said, I respectfully disagree with the author over what CAN be used as bait. I grew up in Delco and fished Section 4 of Ridley Creek regularly. As a kid, I still remember one day fishing directly under the Media Bypass using live nymphs and other critters I found under rocks for bait.

In the past both caddis larva (aka "stickbait" although that term has been hijacked) and stonefly nymphs (aka "creepers") were commonly used as bait.

 

[RLeep2]

The author has some points, but if I had to pin down how I feel about it, I'd say I'm about 70% in disagreement with him. The major area of agreement for me is on larger water where I think flies are likely superior. Otherwise, on streams that average less than say, 40 feet or so wide, UL spin fishing is superior if the object is the most fish of the greatest average size. On stream smaller than about 20 feet, particularly those with a lot of woody debris, bait is superior but a properly handled and fished spinner is a very close second. In either case though, not to sound snooty, the superiority of spinners or bait only applies if you know what the h--- it is you're doing..

All the same, I'll continue to do 90%-plus of my trout fishing with a fly rod because that is what I want to do.

 

[jifigz]

Lkyboots wrote:
I started fly fishing instead of bait fishing because it was a lot easier and less expensive. I got tired catching night crawlers and lost a bunch of minnow traps. When night crawlers got to $1.50 a doz. I started fishing with flies. I didn't have the hassle of trying to find a bait shop and a couple dozen flies lasted me a long time. I fished Mudler Minnows, Grey Ghosts, Mickey Finns, and Hares ear nymphs. I'd buy whatever flies I could find at the local stores.

When you say "less expensive" I am assuming that you don't have a mass of fly tying materials. Hooks, beads, and materials just seem to steal lots of money from me on a very regular basis.....it is like an addiction.

 

[jifigz]

troutbert wrote:
Does it matter?

Most people fly fish because they enjoy it.

If it was proved that bait fishing, or spinner fishing, has a higher catch rate, I doubt that many flyfishers would switch.

It does matter....because if we only talked about the things that mattered and not the things that don't matter, such as this, we wouldn't have much to talk about at all....so yeah, it matters.

 

[jifigz]

I used to be a hardcore bass fisherman. Pouring jigheads, pouring plastics, chasing smallmouths 12 months a year. Spinning and baitcasting have advantages and so does fly fishing. End of story. You can drop things like a brick quickly to the depths with a spinning or baitcasting rod, not so much on a fly rod. Fly fishing has the upper hand for trout, ALWAYS, as it lends itself to copying the very hatches that drive trout crazy. Spinning or baticasting with a live stonecat will out perform a stonecat fly. IF I am going after catfish, I bet I catch more dangling a live minnow, fallfish, or bluegill out there than with my fly rod.

It just all depends. Use what you enjoy. Don't be a slob about it. Clean up after yourself. The only time I ever use a spinning or baitcasting rod is when I am catfishing. Otherwise, it is the fly rod no matter what, even if I am less likely to do well with it in the circumstances.

 

[whheff]

Great article and a lot of good replies.
Like most others I too started as bait guy but stopped fishing when I went into the Air Force.
Fast forward 30 years and I was lucky to work with a great fly tier and fisherman. I really enjoyed my time with him and learned a lot. I enjoy fly fishing because I feel closer to nature and the environment.
I still take the grandkids spin fishing for sun fish because it is a great way to get them involved in being outdoors.

 

[Prospector]

RLeep2 wrote:
The author has some points, but if I had to pin down how I feel about it, I'd say I'm about 70% in disagreement with him. The major area of agreement for me is on larger water where I think flies are likely superior. Otherwise, on streams that average less than say, 40 feet or so wide, UL spin fishing is superior if the object is the most fish of the greatest average size. On stream smaller than about 20 feet, particularly those with a lot of woody debris, bait is superior but a properly handled and fished spinner is a very close second. In either case though, not to sound snooty, the superiority of spinners or bait only applies if you know what the h--- it is you're doing..

All the same, I'll continue to do 90%-plus of my trout fishing with a fly rod because that is what I want to do.

RLeep2,
I’m with you on Spinner fishing being the most effective. I’m saying that mainly because of Frank Nale’s staggering numbers. I used spinners as a kid and they were effective but not overly. I have had some big days fly fishing over the last 5 years where I catch 45 to 65 in a day. However I only do that 1-2 days per year, not 50 days like Frank does.

My dad taught me to fly fish at age 10 and it would be a mix of bait, artificials and flies based on the date. Prior to opening day it was all fly fishing on special regs. Then for 3-4 weeks it was all spinning gear. May was a mix between spinning and fly fishing. June and beyond was all fly fishing. That general pattern continued until I was about 25.

Complicating matters of switching to a full time fly fisher was my “wife to be” who only fished bait or spinners. I baited every hook and took off every fish so that made fly fishing take a back seat because she was fun to fish with. She was an early season angler so I fished flies when she didn’t come along as the season progressed.

Our son was reason #2 I circled back to bait and spinners. He began to get the hang of a fly rod at age 10 and probably switched full time to fly fishing for trout by age 16 and he continues that way today in his mid 20s. I imagine most people with kids probably follow that same pattern until kids master the more difficult skill.

I only fly fish for trout and salmon although I likely will some day get back into lake fly fishing for bass and panfish. Haven’t done that for 30 years. I suspect in retirement my wife might want to trout fish again (until the bugs get bad). As I drove around to fish this week that thought was on my mind and I believe I might bait fish for stocked trout just to make it more fun for both of us when she decides to come along. It will work better that way.

 

[JeffK]

This is complicated. I started fly fishing seriously as a teenager because once late May rolled around the spinners and bait weren't cutting it and the fly guys were having all the "luck." My turning point was one June day when I was skunked and I netted a nice 18" brown for a guy that had a size 16 pheasant tail in its mouth. I learned to fish small nymphs real fast after that.

I did seine nymphs preferring "spring worms" (aka cranefly larvae), crayfish, caddis worms, and hellgrammites (never found a hellgrammite fly to work remotely as well as the real thing). Never had luck with mayfly or stonefly nymphs because they just died and drifted funny.

The absolutely deadliest bait for me was a softshell crayfish. Could rarely get one to hit the bottom cold or warmwater and the biggest fish in a pool would normally push the other fish away to grab it.

I most frequently fly fish in ordinary waters when the waters are "fished out." That means the fish that fall for power bait have left on a stringer and the ones feeding on insects aren't bothered by many other fly fishermen, like in the special regs areas.

 

[larkmark]

I think when the trout get interested in certain insects like caddis and mayflies they are then hard to catch on bait. Trout are mostly selective feeders in my experience.

 

[maxima12]

I . feel. fly or bait is a personal matter! Bait, my brothers, has given me a chance, to fly fish! Bait is the tool, to your cool! I am sorry, i have been adrift! Bait men, i love the cool swim of waxworm on a size 20 hook with that thread. Thread is so cool. on a 20. The thread, is a good fly fishers tippet;


Best by test, if you try!