Fly Shop Advice

[TimRobinsin]

hello, I am currently in the works of starting a shop in lancaster. while, our first concerns are going to be to provide flies, leaders and weight for the local FFers, another area we may have interest in is providing tying material. while I do not tie myself, I was interested in your opinion in regards to inventory. what would be the "must haves" that you would want in a shop? Do you order a lot of material online? if so what would be the type of materials you would want to buy in person so as to ensure the quality of the product?

as I said, we would more than likely not start off with this, however we may grow into it if we see that it is viable.

thanks for your consideration and help, I greatly appreciate the feedback I have received so far from our local guys. I realize that there may be many reasons for the current shop in lancaster to be closing and we feel that given the void it leaves there is room perhaps for a scaled down fly shop that would service the regular needs of FFers.

again thank you for your help and feel free to PM me.

 

[Marv_Levy]

good luck on your endeavor i dont tie flies my self but i can give you some advice. Make the fly shop feel like a second home. Its the only way for a fly shop to compete with the bulk stores and online competition. You have to make people go there because they want to go even if its cheaper and more convenient to do there shopping online.

 

[BelAirSteve]

I have never purchased fly tying material online. I have a great local shop, Greatfeathers, and I buy everything there. I have another shop, Backwater Angler, that is closer to the Gunpowder access points. I buy leaders, shot, and other terminal tackle from them. I guess I like to spread the love a little to both shops. Before I started tying, I purchased flies online.

BWA carries nice professionally tied flies, including Rainy, and I do buy some of their terrestrials from time to time for tying ideas. Will you offer guide services as well? It seems to me, if you have read these forums, that an independent shop cannot survive on retail sales alone. If you build a following based on quality materials, you could sell online as well. That is what Greatfeathers does.

Best of luck to you...I would love to see you succeed.

 

[jayL]

In previous discussions with Jonas at the feathered hook, he made a good point.

You've got to either be a destination shop, or a major supply shop. Being a "tweener", as he put it, doesn't work. He did away with his tying stuff, so that he can firmly entrench the shop as a "destination shop". Either you carry EVERYRHING, or you just carry the basics for people who happen to be fishing in the area. In between doesn't work. If you're going to carry cdc, carry every color. If you're going to carry hackle, have a huge selection. Fly tyers go to the shop with very specific needs, and will leave empty handed if you don't have the exact right product. A fly shop with 50% of what your average tying customer needs on a given day is useless to that customer.

You may want to consider that when formulating your business model. Good luck!

 

[TimRobinsin]

wow! this is very insightful. thank you so much for your input. we are definitely going for the basic terminal tackle type shop. you could call it a "destination" shop but there are not a lot of waters in lancaster that people travel far to get to. I'm not bashing my home water, I'm just saying that if your gonna drive there are plenty of higher quality streams to be found than those here. however, I feel that there is definitely a market for terminal fly tackle and a modest shop that carries flies for streams located within a few hours driving distance. more so I agree with the "second home" suggestion, I know this sounds out there but I come from a background of skateboarding and every shop I ever go in has a couch and pictures of customers in it. thats kinda what we're going after, it's going to be a place where from 6-9pm I'll turn the coffee pot on, turn up the tunes and help whoever I can that walks through the door. It'll be a part time thing to start with thats why we're going to go with the working mans hours of 6-9pm and 12-4 on sat and sun. I was thinking of putting one of those "lost stream" maps up on the wall and having pins for people to put on holes they don't mind sharing and other pins for them to put for where they're from, just as a community thing. I was also thinking of giving 10 cents off any fly if the customer allows us to depress the barb as a way of promoting c&r. alas, I have lots of ideas but I have to do what works. thanks for the input, keep it coming, we're talking to the borough monday about the requirements for opening a business. thanks guys!

 

[FrequentTyer]

Tim,
I've got to agree with what has been posted so far. There is so much tying stuff out there and we are so picky, that no small shop is going to be able to keep even a small percentage of the folks happy. But I do have a "left field" option for you to consider. There are usually a handful of local patterns that work consistently and wind up listed on the hatch boards in the fly shops. I think it would be really great if someone would put together a quality material kit around those patterns (hooks, thread, everything needed to tie 12 flys and a detailed list of what the materials are called and step by step instructions). So if I come into the shop and buy a local pattern fly that produces for me that day, I might stop back and grab a kit to tie up a dozen for my next outing. It would also be a great way for beginning tyers to get into the hobby without laying out a ton of money for materials or starting with lousy kit materials. You might even consider having a tying station available for quick modifications or impromptu lessons.
Good luck!
Mike.

 

[buffalo7]

Tim,
Good luck with your shop. It's been a long time since I was in Lancaster, I have relatives in Conestoga, and used to hunt and fish in the Safe Harbor, Holtwood, Muddy Run areas. I would like to stop there if I was ever up that way.

You wont have any problem finding out what everyone likes in flytying materials.

 

[STONEMAN]

Tim, good luck. Retail can't be easy. I'll stop by in my visits to f&m to visit my daughter. My two cents? Try to make it inviting to both the novice and experienced fisherman, to your regulars and the occasional shopper. I am embarrassed to say that the guys at bass pro often are friendlier and more welcoming than those at some other shops I frequent. I am still intimidated when I walk into one shop in particular. Conversely, I stopped in at backwater angler recently and the two guys in the shop had it figured out. One had a selection of sulfers spilled out on the counter and immediately involved me in a conversation about them. Another chatted about some gear I was admiring. We all walked out with some purchases. Keep us posted.

 

[TimRobinsin]

Awesome guys! I totally hear ya on the welcoming atmosphere. I honestly don't know a lot about tying, and just a little about catching fish, but the funny thing about fish and fishermen is that they both need something that looks like what they want presented in the right way for them to take it. I don't mean that to mean I just want to sell people stuff, I mean that to say that I believe for a shop to work it's gotta be real. Our shop will be real, it might not appeal to the high end guys to start because our location is gonna be my house to start with and I live in east Petersburg ( no offense to the "pete" cuz I love it here but it's not uppity uppity). I just want to fill the void we're all gonna feel. I agree that big box stores have some great people working there, but they're far away from us down here and how many of them will be cool with their customers just coming in to share experiences? That's what I want, Im no expert but I love people and especially people who love the fly. We're giving it a go and I really appreciate the input, it's really helping to shape our vision and confirming some of what we already thought...how cool! Thanks, and keep it coming!

 

[tocar]

Tim, you can count on at least one customer to stop by frequently...me. East Pete is about a ten minute drive (vs 50mins to Cabelas or BPS).

peace-tony c.

 

[BradFromPotter]

One question...are you doing this for fun or to make a profit? If you're doing it to make a profit you will need numbers, big numbers of people to come into your shop. As far as what materials to carry. Have it all. When I had my shop there was always someone who came in & wanted something I did not have. Good luck.

 

[PennKev]

Have some sort of online presence and keep it up do date. Local stream reports are a great idea and they need not indentify every bug in the creek. High/low, muddy/clear, obvious hatches etc

Also make sure you are really up to speed on what is happening/hatching on your home water and state wide for that matter. You're going to have folks who want to know what flies they need and they won't take wooley bugger for an answer. (Even if that is the best answer.) You're pretty much asserting yourself as a local expert so keep that in mind too.

If you have a local TU, get involved in some capacity. Donate items to fundraisers, purchase add space in newsletters, etc.

 

[TimRobinsin]

Thanks! Definitely for fun right now, we know there is some money to be made at it but it's part time money. It's primarily to fill the void we will have when the ER is gone.
As far as up to date on conditions and hatches, I am an Internet watcher as well and definitely will be keeping our website up to date! I dislike like when shops neglect their stream condition reports because so much planning is involved nowadays when trying new streams, you want to make the most of your time on the water and we definitely want to help beginners and new to the area folks with that. Thanks for the help guys, this is great! Keep it coming

 

[Nymph-O-Maniac]

Act like you're happy to see your customers for sure. One fly shop has everything it needs, great local ties, and not that bad of an inventory but this owner makes you feel like you shouldn't be there.

 

[dreamsofstreams]

A fly shop with 50% of what your average tying customer needs on a given day is useless to that customer

Truer words have never been spoken. A customer walks into your shop with a pattern or two in mind - he only finds half of the materials he needs - he returns home P.O.'ed that he has to order the other half of his materials online and wait for them to arrive. During this endeavour he realizes that (a) Going to the flyshop still didn't get him tying up a new pattern any faster because he had to wait for the online portion of his materials, and (b) He could have purchased the 50% he bought from your shop for cheaper online.

So his logic is such: Why waste my time and gas money to travel to your shop to overpay for materials that don't get me cranking out flies any faster.

I try to support 2 shops in the Pittsburgh area and routinely pay a little more for my hooks, beads, threads, dubbing, whiting 100's, etc. BUT because of the description above, if I'm trying a new recipe with specific materials that I don't have I order everything online under the assumption that there is no way I'm going to walk out of either shop with everything I need.

 

[afishinado]

dreamsofstreams wrote:
A fly shop with 50% of what your average tying customer needs on a given day is useless to that customer

Truer words have never been spoken. A customer walks into your shop with a pattern or two in mind - he only finds half of the materials he needs - he returns home P.O.'ed that he has to order the other half of his materials online and wait for them to arrive. During this endeavour he realizes that (a) Going to the flyshop still didn't get him tying up a new pattern any faster because he had to wait for the online portion of his materials, and (b) He could have purchased the 50% he bought from your shop for cheaper online.

So his logic is such: Why waste my time and gas money to travel to your shop to overpay for materials that don't get me cranking out flies any faster.

I try to support 2 shops in the Pittsburgh area and routinely pay a little more for my hooks, beads, threads, dubbing, whiting 100's, etc. BUT because of the description above, if I'm trying a new recipe with specific materials that I don't have I order everything online under the assumption that there is no way I'm going to walk out of either shop with everything I need.

Spoken like a true fly tyer / fly fisherman (NOT A TRUE BUSINESSMAN!)

Stocking ten thousand or more fly tying items and materials in all different colors, sizes, shapes and configurations in hopes someone will buy it is not a good business move. First of all, FFing and tying is seasonal, you are likely to sit on your inventory for a year or more.

Just as an example, Jonas from the Feathered Hook dropped his feathers! He is not a stupid man (actually he's a very sharp businessman) and came to realize that stocking so many low turn items on his shelf was killing him. Many Fly shops have parred down their stock of fly tying items as well. The shop in Lancaster is going out, Cold Springs in Carlisle is gone as well as Rod at the LL, and now it sounds like the YB shop is on it's last legs and the list goes on. Some of these shops inventoried a whole bunch of tying materials. Ever notice even the big box stores have a limited supply of tying materials and do not dedicate a lot of shelf space to it?

 

[buffalo7]

afishinado wrote:

Just as an example, Jonas from the Feathered Hook dropped his feathers! He is not a stupid man (actually he's a very sharp businessman) and came to realize that stocking so many low turn items on his shelf was killing him. Many Fly shops have parred down their stock of fly tying items as well.

The Gander Mountain store closest to me, (about 60 miles) had the best selection around, there is an Orvis shop about 30 miles away but I would go to Gander Mountain. The last time I went in there they hardly had anything, I asked one of the employees if they had any more tying materials elsewhere, he said no thats all of it. I said they realy downsized, he said they downsized something like 42% in flytying, totaly did away with boats and atvs, and downsized in about all other departments. It looks more like a clothes store now. I'll never make a special trip there again, but I would go to a small shop that is close, that had the same inventory.

 

[caveman]

East Pete is not far from me either and it sounds like a great idea. One thing that may can make it a difference is your location, meaning if you can do this from your garage or basement rather than having to rent a shop space it will help get you off the ground.. I like the idea of it being a welcoming homey place. I have had the same feeling a few times being in some shops, like I didn't belong there.

 

[dreamsofstreams]

Another idea - more "businessman like" this time.

I was at a shop in Vermont one time that had 6 or 7 ties prominently displayed on the counter with little recipe cards underneath. Like a sucker I think I dropped $40 or so on materials to tie up a couple of them before heading out the next day. Keep the ties applicable to your local waters and time of year and that could be a way to "push" inventory to help with turnover.

Another thought would be to buy skins or bulk packs and divide them up yourself. I don't know the legality of say breaking up a pack of Whiting 100's (not labled for individual resale situation?) but I'd be more than happy to drop $5 on a pack of say 4 feathers in 4 different colors rather than $21 for a pack of 1 color in 1 size.

 

[TimRobinsin]

we are open to the idea of tying materials but probably not the first year. when we do decide to carry we are considering exactly that idea, "dreams". we will carry materials for complete patterns that are useful for our streams, specifically lititz run.
as far as location, we are at a crossroads, we would need to file a variance to run it outta our house. we have spoken to the fellow who runs catfish court and he is very receptive to our idea but does not have a spot for us yet, although he took our information and said that there is a probability the one person is leaving shortly. the rent is not bad but might hurt our feasibility so thats kinda a last option although the location would perfect.