Fishing with small (size 20 and smaller) midges

[WTDoc]

i went out to a local DHALO yesterday in the rain. I decided to try something that i havent really done before and that was use some small midges. Size 20 and 22 red zebra midges. I was able to hook and net a very nice fatty rainbow (15 inches). I moved up to a slower area and hooked 3 nice bows in the first 4 casts but each got off after a couple of seconds. Do you all find this common with fishing very small midges? Is there anything "technique wise" that can be done to keep them on the hook? I was fishing them below a Frenchie under an indicator. Each take was quick and i dont know if i didnt set the hook firm enough or maybe too firm? The midges were fine after each hook up. Thoughts?

 

[Bamboozle]

While 20's & 22's aren't that small when it comes to midges, in my experience lifting and tightening the line seems to work better than a quick/fast hookset you might employ with a larger hook size.

I routinely fish stuff down to a size 32 and even do micro-fishing with bait using size 30 hooks and in all cases, lifting and tightening the line much like I do with circle hooks is the ticket versus a hard jerk.

Good luck!!

 

[JeffK]

I think Bamboozle has it covered. But there is some mystery in fishing tiny flies - some days you can't miss and other days nothing seems to stick. As always sharp hooks matter. Some people like to offset the hooks a little; others don't (I have tried both and don't offset any more). As for size, I don't tie smaller than a 24 since all the flies I tie look the same past that point. Plus can tie a fly smaller than the normal proportions; i.e can tie a 26 size nymph on a 22 hook. I rarely go below a 22 these days. For underwater I find 6X and smaller tippets in fluorocarbon hold up better than nylon.

I have had periods when I love midge fishing and others when I give up on it. The last 3 years my buddy and I have been hitting the Lehigh Valley limestoners all winter where midges are the staple offering so have gone back to loving it. Unfortunately, with my older eyes and cold hands it can take 20 minutes to tie one of those itty bitty flies on a thin tippet.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

You could also try tying your midge patterns on wide gap hooks.

 

[JimNovo]

You could also try tying your midge patterns on wide gap hooks.

I love the Daichi 1110, wide gape, big eye hooks. I tie down to and use 26, and have very little problem tying them on.

 

[dryflyguy]

When using smaller flies, it helps to cast upstream.
That way, the fly is pulled back into the fish's mouth - giving a better chance of a good hook set.

 

[Sylvaneous]

A problem with tiny flies is the materials of the tie obscure the hook point/gap. Beads are super popular and can obscure the hook point too much. Just think, anything on the hook shank in the direction of the point obscures SOMEWHAT, and with a sz. 22, that 'somewhat' can be enough to just nick or miss the fish.

 

[Bamboozle]

Vince Marinaro advocated offsetting the hook point slightly to one side so it is out of alignment with the shank. Partridge of Redditch made the Vince Marinaro Midge Fly Hooks after conferring with Vince on the idea.

 

[dryflyguy]

Vince Marinaro advocated offsetting the hook point slight to one side so it is out of alignment with the shank. Partridge of Redditch made the Vince Marinaro Midge Fly Hooks after conferring with Vince on the idea.

Those were the best midge hooks I've ever used.

They quit making them for awhile.
Then I believe they started up again, although they weren't made in England, if I recall correctly.

 

[Bamboozle]

Even though Vince was my idol and I liked the "offset" concept, I never used them because I'm not a fan of the down eyes on those hooks. I much prefer a ringed or straight eye on hooks smaller than 18.

If I feel a need on the water because I'm not hooking fish, I'll just "kirb" or offset my straight point hooks with my fingernail.

Bill Skilton has a bunch of the "real deal" hooks in sizes 24 & 26 on his eBay store but they are pricey.

 

[dryflyguy]

I went to that ebay store.
Those do look like the original Partridge hooks that were made in England.

And if they are, that price isn't bad.
$13.50 for a 25 pack, which in that size, would last me a long time.
Back in the day - late '80's or early '90's - they were like $7 - $8 for a 25 pack, if I recall correctly.

 

[GeneBeam]

Why not try this site https://detteflies.com/collections/partridge

 

[Bamboozle]

Why not try this site https://detteflies.com/collections/partridge

Current Partridge hooks are made in Singapore or China not England like the old Partridge Marinaro Midge Hooks.

In addition the current Partridge Midge Hook has a slightly different round or perfect bend versus the Captain Hamilton bend found on the Marinaro Midge and the point isn't offset.

In other words, the only similarity between the current Partridge Midge Hook and the Marinaro Midge Hook is they are both midge hooks branded as Partridge.

I went to that ebay store.
Those do look like the original Partridge hooks that were made in England.

And if they are, that price isn't bad.
$13.50 for a 25 pack, which in that size, would last me a long time.
Back in the day - late '80's or early '90's - they were like $7 - $8 for a 25 pack, if I recall correctly.

I guess I haven't bought hooks in a while.

I can tell you that Bill is a pleasure to do business with in person or from his eBay Store.

 

[Spookintrout]

i went out to a local DHALO yesterday in the rain. I decided to try something that i havent really done before and that was use some small midges. Size 20 and 22 red zebra midges. I was able to hook and net a very nice fatty rainbow (15 inches). I moved up to a slower area and hooked 3 nice bows in the first 4 casts but each got off after a couple of seconds. Do you all find this common with fishing very small midges? Is there anything "technique wise" that can be done to keep them on the hook? I was fishing them below a Frenchie under an indicator. Each take was quick and i dont know if i didnt set the hook firm enough or maybe too firm? The midges were fine after each hook up. Thoughts?

Was your line also on the top of the water floating? The more line on the water is going to create drag and make your hook-sets slower because you'll have to lift that line up to set the hook. Sometimes its hard to keep alot of line off the water(especially with long drifts with the indicator) but that'll help you a lot in terms setting the hook faster. I also agree with Bamboozle on keeping line in hand along with a set. I use foam chubby ants as indicators because fish can hit them and they seem to be a lot more sensitive than traditional indicators.

 

[sandflyx]

Try a size 28 royal wulff

 

[sandflyx]

S

 

[dryflyguy]

Sandfly,

If you're serious, I'd like to see a video of you tying that

 

[silverfox]

I tie all my midges on scud profile hooks. Years ago, I never used midges. Now they're what I use 99% of the time.

I've experimented with all kinds of hooks, and I've settled on firehole 317 in #22 for the vast majority of my midges. Firehole's hook sizes seem to be about a half size or more bigger than most other brands. I haven't gotten into tiny hooks, but I have done some #24s. The 22s seem to work just fine, so I've never felt the need to drop lower. I'm not usually fishing for super picky fish, though.

Not a direct comparison, but this kind of tells the story. The point here is the scud hooks seem to provide a little more hook-holding ability than the straight shank (IMO). The TMC 22 is for comparison only. Obviously not a scud profile.

FWIW, this is the pattern I tie all the time and has been a killer pattern for me. I tie it in a variety of color combos from 18 to 22. Sometimes with no bead, sometimes with micro glass beads, and sometimes with 1.5mm tungsten beads.

 

[pcray1231]

I used to fish tricos in 22's and 24's a lot. I'd lose more fish than with bigger hooks, but it wasn't like a world of difference. I tied them black thread bodies spent wing.

When I wanted a midge dry, I'd snip off the tails and ruffle up the wings a bit, even spit a little tobacco on them to darken em up. That was my midge and it worked well.

 

[Bamboozle]

Try that Royal Wulff pattern on the long gone Mustad 277 in size 28.

The 277 was so small it didn't even have an eye! Back in the day we used to tie tiny midges on them to try and fool the sippers at the Ditch when we wanted get frustrated nicking trout teeth.

Here's a photo of a 277 sitting INSIDE of the gape of a TMC 518 next to a millimeter scale: