felt or rubber and studs?

[jay1963]

I am looking for thought on metal studs or felt for wading boots.
I bought some wading boots from Cabela’s with rubber soles and man they are like walking on ice so I just installed the studs I hope to get out some time this week and try them out.
So what do y’all think felt or rubber with studs?

 

[KeithS]

Check yesterday's discussions.

 

[jay1963]

Thanks I did not notice that when i posted this.

 

[pcray1231]

Yup. Studs help felt and rubber alike.

That said, there are different types of studs. I have tried the bigger flatter studs. Examples include the "alumibite" or "star cleats" from Simms. Or those bar types, which are like horizontal bars across the bottom of the boot.

They are great for mud, silt, sand, fine gravel, etc., but they suck something fierce on solid hard surfaces like rock. It's like being on ice. The tread doesn't ever make contact, so you're walking JUST on that hard surface.

Much better to get the smaller carbide types. Most brands have a version. Simms calls their's "hardbite". Many also use studs meant for ice racing tires like Kold Kutters, as you can buy them in bulk for much cheaper. You can also use regular stainless hex screws from the hardware store, which work just as well for far less money. Steel will wear down faster than carbide, but for a few cents each you can just replace them at will.

All of these will, very temporarily, actually reduce traction. For the same reason the big flat types above do. But they quickly wear down to tread depth. At that point you have tread and studs making contact, and that's a huge advantage.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

I have felt and rubber with studs. I prefer rubber with studs for most applications. I do however prefer my felts when the water is low and stealth is the name of the game.

 

[Cold]

When I first started out, it was just plain rubber hippers, which are worse than useless.

Then I went to true waders with felt soled boots and it was wonderful. I tried sticky rubber...then studded rubber...and within one trip with each, went right back to plain felt.

Last year, I got a good deal on a set of soles for my Korkers that were the vibram idrogrip rubber with carbide studs. I decided that if any rubber sole with studs would offer good traction, these were the ones that'd do it, so I committed to giving them an honest shot.

I've still got them on my boots now, and while they're durable and offer good traction, I've still found that studded rubber will give you great traction...until it doesn't. In any kind of loose or uneven or textured substrate, where traction is reasonably easy to maintain anyway, they're rock solid. On thick snotty mud/algae layers, they cut right through and grip...but on the bigger boulders and smooth rocks with just a bit of river slime on them? They'll hold you steady until you shift your weight just a bit, then they'll slide like you're on teflon, without warning.

Ever try running across a smooth floor (concrete, metal, etc.) with football cleats on? You know how you're good while standing still but can't make any sudden stops or turns or else they'll slide out from under you? Same idea with studded rubber on rock.

So basically, for me, they don't offer much other than keeping themselves cleaner than felt, and being better than felt on dry ground. On surfaces where traction wouldn't be an issue, they're not an issue. On surfaces where things can get slippery, they're almost worse than plain rubber, since they feel like they're getting you solid traction until all the sudden they slide. At least with regular rubber, if they're not going to stay put, you know as soon as you put your weight on that foot.

So...while they're not necessarily a bad option overall, if you're looking purely for traction on slippery rocks, felt is far and away the better choice. If you're just looking for a decent all around performer that will be okay in thick mud and durable, studded felt may be a great choice.

 

[ryansheehan]

When I fish a few rivers where wading is treacherous, big, round, algae covered rocks I go with the studded rubber bottom by Korkers. I do not wear these most of the time because they do break down quicker than the studded vibram. However when safety is a priority these things hold on to anything. I guess that's why I like the korkers so much the ability to switch soles for each situation. If anyone here has fished the north branch of the potomac below barnum give these a shot and you will be amazed.

 

[dano]

If Korkers were to bring back the studs and felt that they used during the original ownership of the company, I'd jump on em'.
What they currently use is junk and wears down much quicker than the old studs and felt.
They used to supply Simms, Weinbenner, Danner and Cabelas with soles for their wading boots. You could get three years of heavy use out of the felt while studs hardly showed any wear.

 

[ryansheehan]

Korkers supplied soles for simms? I had no idea. I've also never seen a pair of Simms with built in studs.

 

[salmonoid]

The best Korkers soles were their Aquastealth soles, which I believe is the same high friction rubber Five-Ten uses in their climbing shoes. Those studded soles were the only ones I've felt fully confident in tackling any stream bed with. I had these for my first pair of boots (OmniTrax V1) and also a second generation (OmniTrax V2).

 

[Cold]

salmonid, that's kinda funny, since those were the exact soles I used when trying the "sticky rubber".

Put them in, waded out to the middle of the stream, almost ate it in easy water to wade about 5 times in as many minutes. Walked back to the car, pulled them out, put felt back in, and threw them in the junk box in the garage. Never thought about them since until you mentioned "Aquastealth".

Honestly, that was, for me, a worse traction solution than even rubber hippers.

 

[salmonoid]

Cold wrote:
salmonid, that's kinda funny, since those were the exact soles I used when trying the "sticky rubber".

Put them in, waded out to the middle of the stream, almost ate it in easy water to wade about 5 times in as many minutes. Walked back to the car, pulled them out, put felt back in, and threw them in the junk box in the garage. Never thought about them since until you mentioned "Aquastealth".

Honestly, that was, for me, a worse traction solution than even rubber hippers.

I think I remember you posting that experience on another thread. Funny how the exact same product can produce such different results. It probably gave me a false sense of confidence that got knocked out of me with future generations of studded rubber soles. I have the studded Idrogrip soles on my current pair of boots and that is probably the best rubber sole I've had since the Aquastealth soles. But I also think I remember reading someone had a horrible experience with Idrogrip too, so maybe there's a bias built in based on the geology of the area one usually fishes in. I've got a pair of Korkers sandals with Klingon soles that I take backpacking for wearing around my campsite and wandering upstream/downstream from the campsite when I'm glad to get my boots off my feet and I think I have a pair of Aquastealth V2 soles that will work on them. Going to have to see if I can recreate that gripping experience or find out if I end up skating.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

FWIW, I had felt soled boots for a few decades before giving the L.L.Bean boots with studded Aqua Stealth soles a shot about a decade ago.

TRACTION: Fished many days on streams from Penns to Lehigh to Upper D, lots of hike in to headwaters, etc. No in-water traction problems. Of course, the terrestrial traction is far superior to felt.

VALUE: My first pair of boots came apart a month ago. I did not have the receipt, but Bean has a lifetime warranty. The caveat with no receipt is you get the last sale price as credit. So, I got $100 credit and pair about $45 with tax for a new pair.

No complaints.

The new pair performs as well as the old pair.

Here's a thought: Could wading technique factor into sole performance. By that I mean might felt's better submerged traction cover up risky or marginal wading technique? I'm a strong wader but I also don't take risks. I noticed this year I do a lot of sideways shuffling in fast water. I'm not sure when that started but I thin it helps me stay upright.

 

[pcray1231]

so maybe there's a bias built in based on the geology of the area one usually fishes in.

Yes. All this felt vs. rubber stuff. It ain't just different opinions. It's different circumstances. Weight is also a factor (meaning your weight). Like most things, it can't be boiled down to "X is better". The devil is in the details.

On something soft, like mud, your sole doesn't have to deform, as the substrate deforms. So what you want is for your sole to DIG. Studs or no studs ain't gonna make any meaningful difference. Something aggressively treaded, like rubber, though, will vastly outperform something flat, like felt. And harder rubbers are better.

Plain rock, well, isn't going to deform, so your sole has to instead. So this is where felt rules, and among rubbers, the softer, the better. Complete opposite as the above.

What about algae covered rock? Well, lacking studs, the non treaded felt never makes contact with that rock. It's like being on mud. Not good. Treaded rubber will cut the algae and make contact with rock, offering some traction, but again, rubber on rock isn't great. Seems we have a problem...

But this is where studs come in, and things get complicated. Studs, obviously, will cut the algae and hit rock. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends.

Lets be clear that rock type is a MAJOR difference. On soft rocks like shale or limestone, studs dig into the rock a bit. Now you've got a hard anchor in rock. Very good traction. Makes you feel like freakin spiderman. If that rock were vertical you feel you could climb it!

On hard rocks, granite would be the extreme, they don't dig in. Now you are walking on studs, not felt or rubber. And the contact area is tiny. Very, very bad. You could skate down a 3 degree slope, lol. We don't have that much granite in PA, but we do have a lot of sandstone and quartzites, which are hard rocks.

And on a tweener rock, a heavier person will be more likely to have their studs "dig" better. As will a lower surface area, i.e. sharp carbide studs better than big flat "star cleats" and the like. And many may notice that even with carbide studs, don't load too many on there, you just want a few so that the weight per stud is greater.

In summary, if you got someone fishing fast water (algae free) on sandstone bedrock, they're gonna say felt rules, rubber sucks, and studs suck. And they're absolutely right.

But, if you got someone fishing slow water on algae covered limestone, they'll tell you studded rubber is the bee's knees, and studless felt is just crazy bad. And they're absolutely right too.

The worst situation is algae covered hard rock. Studded felt, with well worn studs down to the felt level, is probably your best bet there. But nothing is gonna work well...

 

[Cold]

I agree with your premise, pcray, if not the specific application in every example you used...again supporting the idea of the subjectivity.

In my wading, unless there's a significant amount of mud bottom, felt is king, studs or lack thereof don't matter.

If there *is* a lot of mud, get the chunkiest, most studded rubber you can find and hope for the best...and overall, you might get 85% of the traction you'd get from felt if you've picked good ones.

 

[PennsylvaniaJesse]

I have had felt and felt with studs. I like the traction offered with the studs.

Drawbacks... you cannot walk into any private or public building for a coffee or whatever... you will not be welcome back. They damage everything.

NOISE.... I can hear the studs scraping rocks. So can the fish. To me, this is a big issue.

I am 60, have serious back issues and arthritis. Lets just say I am not cat-like in movements and reactions.... studs win.



































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