Fan Wing Royal Coachman

[eunanhendron]

Some of these images may not be to the liking of the purists.

I tied some regular coachmen on the wrong hooks, with poor hackles. Both dry fly hooks and new hackle should be with me next week, but for now these will have to do.
I understand i need to work on the hackling and better hooks will improve the look of the pattern too. Also my herls are very fine, so i'll have to get some more of those as well.

Then I got an idea for a detached body, which was followed by a double fan wing, both of which merged to this.

 

[McSneek]

I can't believe, considering your skills, that I'm about to give you suggestions but....hackle looks oversized and I think for this pattern it needs to be fuller. Did you use two hackles? Also, the heads on the more conventional patterns are just a little big. Move everything forward ever so slightly or maybe an additional wrap of hackle in front of the wing. Could just be that the black thread gives it that appearance.

That detached body is certainly interesting!

 

[Chaz]

I always use 2 hackles for my coachman and wullfs. It helps them float high and because I use 1 brown hackle and 1 grizzly hackle, I believe they are more real looking, grizzly give the impression of motion. Just my thoughts, but they are prettier flies.
Beautiful flies!

 

[eunanhendron]

The hackles i currently have are from an india rooster cape, very old and not particularly suited to these flies, but i figured i'd use them to practice.

I just yesterday ordered some whiting dry fly half capes (4 colors, white, black, grizzly, brown) which should be here next week.

Then i'll start to dial in the hackles etc. I'll certainly use two hackles to get the fuller look.

RE: the heads, the india hackles were quite short, and that combined with setting the wings too far back from the eye resulted in the long heads. Something i'll also work on.

The detached body - that was just for fun - i deliberately tied those hackles (3) long.

Thanks for the input. I want to improve.

Eunan

 

[gfen]

an early variant was fan winged with wood or mallard or some other such feather of that design. on that regards its more "purist" than you may realize.

fan wings are, generally, pretty to look at but less efficient in use than any other version, as noted in a prior thread where it was said it'll basically helicopter into the water and turn into a mess.

further more, while the extended body is very pretty to look at, its utterly useless as it simply provides a hard poitn for the fly to sink into rather than a way to spread the weight over the meniscus.

at this rate, you're better off entering into the field of guys who make the ultra-realistic flies, or sticking with salmon flies. both of those are practically wasted, yet great examples of craft.

what you've done here is the equivalent of making a donk out of a '76 impala.

 

[eunanhendron]

Right now i'm experimenting, trying to learn techniques and get some experience tying this style of fly. Is that something that renders my efforts not worthy of continuing 'at this rate'? Seems a bit harsh. The 'donk' is that, a donk, i've no doubt, but is experimenting in parallel with learning fundamentals skills and proportions wrong?

Salmon flies while artistic, are FAR from wasted.
They're regularly fished, not necessarily on these shores, on both eyed and gut eyed hooks, and successfully so.

Theres a reason historic patterns of all varieties, winged wets, dries, rangeley streamers, atlantic salmon flies, are still tied today, they catch fish. Generalizing that tying them is purely artistic, is fundamentally wrong. Sure, some folks see them as artistic, and they can be tied in such a way that they are more artistic than a fishing fly, but at the end of they day, either will catch a fish, and plenty of fishermen too.

 

[gfen]

Yeah, all that aside the body pointing down is pretty stupid, y'know?

That's pretty much the point of what I was saying up there.

 

[Fishidiot]

I wouldn't call it stupid at all - far from it. The flies like good and the extended version - while perhaps impracticable for fishing - is a worthwhile sort of thing to experiment with. It's a fun aspect of the fly tying hobby and such experimentation can lead to some unique insights and innovative adaptations.
(Kinda like tinkering with old Medalist reels)

Of course, I'm biased and enjoy the artsy-fartsy angle of the fly tying hobby. I suppose for tyers who only consider the hobby from the standpoint of producing stock for their fly boxes...such efforts as this are pointless. Personally, I think tyers who never experiment are missing out on a rewarding angle.....but to each his own.

 

[FrequentTyer]

eunanhendron wrote:
Right now i'm experimenting, trying to learn techniques and get some experience tying this style of fly. Is that something that renders my efforts not worthy of continuing 'at this rate'? Seems a bit harsh. The 'donk' is that, a donk, i've no doubt, but is experimenting in parallel with learning fundamentals skills and proportions wrong?

Salmon flies while artistic, are FAR from wasted.
They're regularly fished, not necessarily on these shores, on both eyed and gut eyed hooks, and successfully so.

Theres a reason historic patterns of all varieties, winged wets, dries, rangeley streamers, atlantic salmon flies, are still tied today, they catch fish. Generalizing that tying them is purely artistic, is fundamentally wrong. Sure, some folks see them as artistic, and they can be tied in such a way that they are more artistic than a fishing fly, but at the end of they day, either will catch a fish, and plenty of fishermen too.

Couldn't agree more Eunan! An very large number of anglers past and present would be surprised to hear that fan wings are impractical or less efficient. Of course, there will always be guys that look at any fly that takes a bit of skill to cast or tie and call it impractical. To each his own.
I'm kind of intrigued by the down pointing extended body. It looks Klink-ish to me. Of course it looks nothing like anything the fish would normally eat...sort of like the traditional RC pattern!
I'm not really a purist, but I do believe that tying flys is pointless if you are not tying to please yourself. If all you are doing is restocking boxes, then you are better off buying flys. If someone wants to tie in a traditional style and asks for comments, telling them to tie in some other style is not helpful. So I guess I am a purist in the sense that I believe that a thing should be what you call it. If someone wants to catch fish with foam and lint on a hook, they should go for it. Just don't call it a by classic pattern name.
Mike.

 

[afishinado]

:-o

 

[McSneek]

afishinado wrote:
:-o

What he's done there is the equivalent of making an AMC Gremlin out of a Ford Pinto. :-D :-D

 

[Maurice]

afishinado wrote:
:-o

That reel looks like a big mouthed clown that has very little value.

Well it does add drag I guess, so there is that.

:lol:

 

[The_Sasquatch]

You guys are smoking grass, man! That seems like an practicable upgrade to an already amazing piece of equipment. Its more like putting an iPod doc in a '69 T-Bird if you ask me.

 

[sandfly]

fan wing drys worked well back when cat gut leaders were used as they were stiffer than today's leaders and tippets. if you want to use fan wings use mason hard mono for your leaders and tippets, it works well..

 

[Maurice]

sandfly wrote:
fan wing drys worked well back when cat gut leaders were used as they were stiffer than today's leaders and tippets. if you want to use fan wings use mason hard mono for your leaders and tippets, it works well..

The prodigal son returns.....so where you been Bob? Peopls been askin about ya.

 

[beadhead2]

The fish Guru returns !!!!!!

 

[sandfly]

Tryin to bag a deer or 2, seen 12 (2 buck) all season till hunting. Can't find them now. had to catch up on things, wash, food, etc...

 

[gfen]

McSneek wrote:
What he's done there is the equivalent of making an AMC Gremlin out of a Ford Pinto. :-D :-D

I prefer to think of it as akin to this, which is to say its still lipstick on a pig. That said, its a pretty pig, innit? You should meet its bigger brother.

Don't let Afish kid you though, he loves it. He secretly loves all the junk I like to use, you should see his smile when he casts my tomato stake.

 

[afishinado]

gfen wrote:

McSneek wrote:
What he's done there is the equivalent of making an AMC Gremlin out of a Ford Pinto. :-D :-D

I prefer to think of it as akin to this, which is to say its still lipstick on a pig. That said, its a pretty pig, innit? You should meet its bigger brother.

Don't let Afish kid you though, he loves it. He secretly loves all the junk I like to use, you should see his smile when he casts my tomato stake.

Smile?!....that smile was actually a grimace of pain from the torque the javelin put on my shoulder.... :-o