First of all, I admittedly used a poor choice of words (aint natural?), but I didn't think I would need to explain it. Anyone who thinks the PA steelhead fishery is natural, doesn’t get out much (IMHO).
I'll try to explain my opinion (that is all it was).
There are several things that I find that "aint natural"
The numbers are part of it, but it has more to do with the environment.
I wasn't talking about the fish as being un-natural. they are stocked as smolts. In an artificial fishery, that is as natural as you can get in that environment.
I don't find the crowds to be a very "natural" experience (combat fishing). I dislike crowded conditions. I can usually find a small stretch of water to fish, but as soon as you catch one that often changes. If you have to move from your "spot" to fight the fish, there is a good chance someone else will move in. Even if you don’t move, you often get crowded from either side.
I have no doubt that in a west coast natural setting, in a true steelhead stream, the numbers can actually be greater (as you said), but those streams compared to the PA tribs is an apples to oranges comparison (IMHO). The PA tribs for the most part are shale bottom, shallow, and gin clear. If those streams were on the west coast, I seriously doubt they would support anywhere near those numbers. Not natural IMO.
Then you have the fish commission did out holes for people to fish (Walnut Creek). Is that natural? looks like a circle jerk, but I suppose a circle jerk is a natural thing to some people, but not me. And how about that manchaser hole (Manchester hole). i guess that would be a semi-circle jerk since one side is off limits.
An interesting statistic. PA stocks more steelhead smolt than any other state. I believe they stock more than Canada does in their lake Erie tribs. That would be easy enough to look up. They stock more trout in elk Creek, then Ohio stocks in all their streams combined. That may have changed when Ohio bumped up their numbers, but I don’t think it did. Yet PA has the shortest shore line of any of them.
Fishing for steelhead in the PA tribs is like fishing for 5 to 10 pound fish crowded onto a flooded pool table... with 5 other guys targeting the same fish.
All of the fish in those tribs have to run a gauntlet almost constantly during the daylight hours. It doesn't take long for them to shut down with their nose to the bottom. Then they still get molested over and over. People will stand there and cast for the same fish over and over and over until they "hook-up". FISHON!!! Most of it is sight fishing. Because of the shallow and clear water conditions, a large percentage of the fish caught are foul hooked, and it is probably a majority of the fish if you count the ones that are lined. I don't intentionally line fish, but it happens often enough by accident. Do your own study. Next time you go up there, pay attention to which side of the mouth your fish are hooked. If they were hooked on the opposite side from where you were standing, the fish was lined.
I prefer the Ohio tribs. For the most part, they are bigger and have less trout. I feel more like I am fishing, and not just target shooting.
The Pa tribs can still be a fun experience, and everybody should do it at least once, just to see the sheer spectacle. It would be fun to get a group together to go there, especially if some had never been there. We could tour all the popular spots just to see the spectacle before actually hiking to fish.
If that is not a good enough explanation of my opinion, then you will just have to accept that I am still entitled to my opinion and you aren’t going to change it. If one enjoys fighting 5 to 10 pound fish in a bath tub, then Erie is the place. That is my opinion.
By the way Tom, remember the post where you accused me of bragging about speeding? Well, a day or two after that, I almost got my first speeding ticket in over 28 years (OK, that is bragging). Haven't had one since I was a teen, and I drive 30 to 40K miles a year. Does that sound like a habitual law breaker? I was doing about 52 or 53 (45 zone) when I went past a state trooper. He pulled out, but fortunately it was behind the guy who was closing on me in a minivan and he got pinched. Not sure if he would have pinched me or not at that speed without the mini-van being there, but I immediately thought of you.
I once told a co-worker that I like driving through the metro-park on my way to and from work (from my old place) even though it took longer, because it is scenic, and the speed limit is only 35. He said, “yea, but everybody drives faster than that.” I said, not when they are behind me. I have enough stress at work, I don’t need it on the road. The ride home allows me to unwind. My point was, even though I am careful, it is still difficult not to break any laws, and some laws are more serious than others. I still don’t recall anyone ever dying from someone else poaching a few stocked trout. It still isn’t right, but not worth a confrontation.
P.S. Yesterday I took a different route home and thought maybe I ran a stop sign. So I stopped twice at the next one. As it turned out, I didn’t have a stop sign at the first one, so they owe me one.
