Entry level Chinese FF gear

[franklin]

For the past three years I've been using some Chinese entry level equipment and finding that it compares well with name brand gear. More specifically rods, reels and line from importers like Piscifun and Maximumcatch. The rods are turning into some of my favorites. The lines are casting and holding up as well as brand names. And the CNC reels have drags smooth enough for moderate sized fish.

The Chinese make a lot of name brand equipment these days and what they have learned is showing up in their own brands.

 

[bigjohn58]

I use Piscifun and MaxCatch reels along with some even cheaper reels I've found online. They really are quality especially for trout use. Chinese reels really are a great deal. Sorry I don't make enough money to support the American market but fly reels are extremely over priced for what they are (least amount of parts when compared to baitcasting and spinning reels yet cost so much more). I've even found American companies rebranding Chinese reels charging 3 or 4 times the price.

 

[afishinado]

franklin wrote:
For the past three years I've been using some Chinese entry level equipment and finding that it compares well with name brand gear. More specifically rods, reels and line from importers like Piscifun and Maximumcatch. The rods are turning into some of my favorites. The lines are casting and holding up as well as brand names. And the CNC reels have drags smooth enough for moderate sized fish.

The Chinese make a lot of name brand equipment these days and what they have learned is showing up in their own brands.

^ true

American made products are very expensive to produce because of much higher labor costs here vs overseas. What has happened is many American tackle companies have gone to manufacturers in China to produce their branded products at lower price points and take advantage of huge savings in labor costs and raw material costs, in some cases, from China and other countries.

The Chinese companies produce these products with the design and specs from the American tackle manufacturers and often clone these products under their own name. Thus Uncle Sam's Super Magnum rods and reels are changed slightly and sold under another name direct from China, usually at a much cheaper price.

The B2B Alibaba site is loaded with these clone brands for all kind of products, not just fishing tackle.. With a small investment to purchase multiple units, anyone can buy these items and sell them on ebay or Online under your own company name. This is precisely what many of the smaller tackle companies are doing right now.

For the retail consumer, Amazon has many direct from China things listed for sale and well as American based marketers buying products direct from Chinese manufacturers and offering them on Amazon.

All the above makes American made products less and less attractive to consumers looking to buy fishing tackle or really most any consumer good desired for cheaper prices.

 

[afishinado]

bigjohn58 wrote:
I use Piscifun and MaxCatch reels along with some even cheaper reels I've found online. They really are quality especially for trout use. Chinese reels really are a great deal. Sorry I don't make enough money to support the American market but fly reels are extremely over priced for what they are (least amount of parts when compared to baitcasting and spinning reels yet cost so much more). I've even found American companies rebranding Chinese reels charging 3 or 4 times the price.

I don't begrudge anyone that buys overseas products because of their limited budgets to buy tackle. Not everyone is able to pay $300 - $400 or a lot more of their hard-earned money for an American-made rod or reel. What makes me shake my head is the opinions of some that insist the American-made products like rods or reels or other tackle and flies made here are a ripoff.

American made tackle is made by American workers that are paid decent wages for making their products. And no one can doubt, especially rod manufacturing and tying flies are a very labor intensive process. Overseas labor is very cheap, pennies on a dollar when compared to domestically made products; and the prices reflect that savings. You expect a decent wage for your work, and so do the workers making tackle or tying flies.

Try to buy American whenever you can. Our tackle is some of the best made in world. American-made products come from Sage, Scott, RL Winston, St. Croix, Orivs , Simms among other smaller US tackle companies.

 

[bigjohn58]

afishinado wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:
I use Piscifun and MaxCatch reels along with some even cheaper reels I've found online. They really are quality especially for trout use. Chinese reels really are a great deal. Sorry I don't make enough money to support the American market but fly reels are extremely over priced for what they are (least amount of parts when compared to baitcasting and spinning reels yet cost so much more). I've even found American companies rebranding Chinese reels charging 3 or 4 times the price.

I don't begrudge anyone that buys overseas products because of their limited budgets to buy tackle. Not everyone is able to pay $300 - $400 or a lot more of their hard-earned money for an American-made rod or reel. What makes me shake my head is the opinions of some that insist the American-made products like rods or reels or other tackle and flies made here are a ripoff.

American made tackle is made by American workers that are paid decent wages for making their products. And no one can doubt, especially rod manufacturing and tying flies are a very labor intensive process. Overseas labor is very cheap, pennies on a dollar when compared to domestically made products; and the prices reflect that savings. You expect a decent wage for your work, and so do the workers making tackle or tying flies.

Try to buy American whenever you can. Our tackle is some of the best made in world. American-made products come from Sage, Scott, RL Winston, St. Croix, Orivs , Simms among other smaller US tackle companies.

I never said US made products were bad product but if you compare conventional gear to fly fishing gear its crazy! A high end conventional gear rod (spinning or baitcasting), G Loomis for example is roughly $675 BUT a fly rod is $1,100. Almost doubled the price! If you look at the components that go into a fly reel compared to a spinning reel or baitcasting reel the fly reel is definitely by far the most simple. No moving parts for casting, no gears, very simple because its basically just a drag system. Heck a fly reel is so simple a lot of people are creating them on plastic 3D printing machines. I don't care how high quality of a fly reel someone is producing there is no reason for any of them to be over $500...heck none should be over $300 even the most expensive fly reel for the amount of parts and the simplicity of them. You label something "fly gear" and it automatically jumps the price up!

 

[afishinado]

bigjohn58 wrote:

afishinado wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:
I use Piscifun and MaxCatch reels along with some even cheaper reels I've found online. They really are quality especially for trout use. Chinese reels really are a great deal. Sorry I don't make enough money to support the American market but fly reels are extremely over priced for what they are (least amount of parts when compared to baitcasting and spinning reels yet cost so much more). I've even found American companies rebranding Chinese reels charging 3 or 4 times the price.

I don't begrudge anyone that buys overseas products because of their limited budgets to buy tackle. Not everyone is able to pay $300 - $400 or a lot more of their hard-earned money for an American-made rod or reel. What makes me shake my head is the opinions of some that insist the American-made products like rods or reels or other tackle and flies made here are a ripoff.

American made tackle is made by American workers that are paid decent wages for making their products. And no one can doubt, especially rod manufacturing and tying flies are a very labor intensive process. Overseas labor is very cheap, pennies on a dollar when compared to domestically made products; and the prices reflect that savings. You expect a decent wage for your work, and so do the workers making tackle or tying flies.

Try to buy American whenever you can. Our tackle is some of the best made in world. American-made products come from Sage, Scott, RL Winston, St. Croix, Orivs , Simms among other smaller US tackle companies.

I never said US made products were bad product but if you compare conventional gear to fly fishing gear its crazy! A high end conventional gear rod (spinning or baitcasting), G Loomis for example is roughly $675 BUT a fly rod is $1,100. Almost doubled the price! If you look at the components that go into a fly reel compared to a spinning reel or baitcasting reel the fly reel is definitely by far the most simple. No moving parts for casting, no gears, very simple because its basically just a drag system. Heck a fly reel is so simple a lot of people are creating them on plastic 3D printing machines. I don't care how high quality of a fly reel someone is producing there is no reason for any of them to be over $500...heck none should be over $300 even the most expensive fly reel for the amount of parts and the simplicity of them. You label something "fly gear" and it automatically jumps the price up!

I worked for Orvis and know their pricing margins and my wife worked for Penn Reels and know their pricing and margins for their reels. The machined bar stock fly reels made in the US are expensive and so are the US made Penn bait-casting reels made by Penn. What spinning or bait-casting reels that are made in the US are comparing? You are comparing foreign-made spin and bait-casting reeks to US made fly reels. BTW, G Loomis products are all made overseas.

 

[bigjohn58]

afishinado wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:

afishinado wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:
I use Piscifun and MaxCatch reels along with some even cheaper reels I've found online. They really are quality especially for trout use. Chinese reels really are a great deal. Sorry I don't make enough money to support the American market but fly reels are extremely over priced for what they are (least amount of parts when compared to baitcasting and spinning reels yet cost so much more). I've even found American companies rebranding Chinese reels charging 3 or 4 times the price.

I don't begrudge anyone that buys overseas products because of their limited budgets to buy tackle. Not everyone is able to pay $300 - $400 or a lot more of their hard-earned money for an American-made rod or reel. What makes me shake my head is the opinions of some that insist the American-made products like rods or reels or other tackle and flies made here are a ripoff.

American made tackle is made by American workers that are paid decent wages for making their products. And no one can doubt, especially rod manufacturing and tying flies are a very labor intensive process. Overseas labor is very cheap, pennies on a dollar when compared to domestically made products; and the prices reflect that savings. You expect a decent wage for your work, and so do the workers making tackle or tying flies.

Try to buy American whenever you can. Our tackle is some of the best made in world. American-made products come from Sage, Scott, RL Winston, St. Croix, Orivs , Simms among other smaller US tackle companies.

I never said US made products were bad product but if you compare conventional gear to fly fishing gear its crazy! A high end conventional gear rod (spinning or baitcasting), G Loomis for example is roughly $675 BUT a fly rod is $1,100. Almost doubled the price! If you look at the components that go into a fly reel compared to a spinning reel or baitcasting reel the fly reel is definitely by far the most simple. No moving parts for casting, no gears, very simple because its basically just a drag system. Heck a fly reel is so simple a lot of people are creating them on plastic 3D printing machines. I don't care how high quality of a fly reel someone is producing there is no reason for any of them to be over $500...heck none should be over $300 even the most expensive fly reel for the amount of parts and the simplicity of them. You label something "fly gear" and it automatically jumps the price up!

I worked for Orvis and know their pricing margins and my wife worked for Penn Reels and know their pricing and margins for their reels. The machined bar stock fly reels made in the US are expensive and so are the US made Penn bait-casting reels made by Penn. What spinning or bait-casting reels that are made in the US are comparing? You are comparing foreign-made spin and bait-casting reeks to US made fly reels. BTW, G Loomis products are all made overseas.

Maybe thats why no companies make spinning and baitcasting reels in the United States that I know of. I'm almost beginning to think I wouldn't even be interested in fishing if it wouldn't be for the overseas market. It would just be a rich man's game. We need to find ways to reduce the cost or not be as greedy in the profits to make our products cheaper yet still good quality. As for the G Loomis rods...I was just comparing traditional gear to fly gear, not so much where it is made.

 

[moon1284]

St Croix Legend Spinning Rod - $440
St Croix Legend Elite Fly Rod - $440

The cost is all labor. Americans don't work for 4 cents an hour. If we open sweatshops you can have American products at Chinese prices. Nobody in America is getting rich selling fly rods and reels. Sage,Orvis, Scott, etc are not greedy companies. Imagine if these companies were fully unionized. How much would gear cost then? You get what you pay for.

Chinese lines aren't even close to $50 SA/Rio/Cortland lines. No comparison. They cost $15 and that's what they are worth. Sure you could cast them OK, I could cast a weed wacker line OK too.

 

[CRB]

All the Chinese fishing gear will beo be 25% more expensive in the coming months.

 

[redietz]

CRB wrote:
All the Chinese fishing gear will beo be 25% more expensive in the coming months.

25% of the wholesale price. Presumably less to the consumer.

 

[poopdeck]

Plenty of misconceptions out there on Chinese or other such manufacturing origins. Contrary to popular belief products from China are not cheap Chinese junk. Just like in the USA, Chinese products can be cheaply, as in quality, made or made very well. It all depends on the procurers specs.

If every Chinese product were banned American industry and retail would shut down and millions would be out of work. In Fact more people would be out of work then the number of people displaced because of international outsourcing. This is why I don't understand the buy American crowd. Importing internationally employs millions in one way or another as does the tech world.

Rolling with the times is a must for a thriving economy and a thriving quality of life. Unless one looks forward to returning to the days where only the super wealthy can have a car or a color television, manufacturering must be passed down to less developed countries trying to make their bones while we stay on the cutting edge of technology.

I say goodbye manufacturering, hello brave new world.

 

[redietz]

poopdeck wrote:

I say goodbye manufacturering, hello brave new world.

We won the second world war by having huge industrial base that could out-manufacture the rest of the world. That is no longer the case. From a strictly strategic point of view, we need to rebuild a manufacturing base.

I'm not it the least suggesting that there's anything wrong with buying Chinese made fishing tackle, or that you wrote isn't true from a strictly economic point of view. However, doesn't it bother you just a bit bit that many of our military uniforms are made in China? Are that the rare earth metals that many of our electronic components used in our military hardware come exclusively from China, because it's deemed too expensive to mine them here.

Protecting American jobs and protecting American industry are two different things. It's not an easy balance to strike. We do need a certain amount of industry here to remain a nation.

 

[poopdeck]

I want the uniforms to be acquired for as cheaply as possible. I could care less where they are made. Now I want our weapons guidance systems made in the USA which I'm pretty sure they are. I'm also sure our jets, ships and tanks are made in the USA.

Manufacturing can be brought back in a heartbeat to satisfy any demand. That's one of the great things about capitalism. During the early years of WWII the demand far outweighed the supply but the supply caught up rather quickly. Same will happen again if it ever needs to, unless the unions get in the way.

 

[franklin]

I should mention that my job for the past 7 years has been working with Chinese companies to design and manufacture telecommunications equipment for my employer. I have a lot of experience with Chinese factories and visit often. There are many missconceptions that Americans hold about factory working conditions.


I'm not aware of much fresh water recreational fishing in China but am in some other SE Asian countries. As standards of living continue to increase in these regions there may be an increase in recreational fishing including flyfishing. This would be a good thing on many fronts.

 

[pcray1231]

Now I want our weapons guidance systems made in the USA which I'm pretty sure they are. I'm also sure our jets, ships and tanks are made in the USA.

You'd be surprised to what extent they are not. Designed here, yeah. Final assembly as well. But a lot of the materials and parts? Nope.

Manufacturing can be brought back in a heartbeat to satisfy any demand.

Not in a society with this degree of regulation. Everything's grandfathered but good luck doin anything new. Replace a bridge? No problem. Build a new one? Uh, yeah, maybe you'll break ground in 25 years.

This as a metallurgist who knows that if, say, you replace a piece of equipment used to make steel for an airplane, the requalification process alone is 10+ years. And that's just within a raw materials supplier company, doing normal obsoleting of old equipment to replace with more modern stuff. So it costs millions to upgrade a few thousand dollar part. Chinese do it without telling anyone, lmao.

 

[bigjohn58]

moon1284 wrote:
St Croix Legend Spinning Rod - $440
St Croix Legend Elite Fly Rod - $440

The cost is all labor. Americans don't work for 4 cents an hour. If we open sweatshops you can have American products at Chinese prices. Nobody in America is getting rich selling fly rods and reels. Sage,Orvis, Scott, etc are not greedy companies. Imagine if these companies were fully unionized. How much would gear cost then? You get what you pay for.

Chinese lines aren't even close to $50 SA/Rio/Cortland lines. No comparison. They cost $15 and that's what they are worth. Sure you could cast them OK, I could cast a weed wacker line OK too.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the cheap fly lines from China. Are you actually trying any of these Chinese products or are you just assuming that since its made in China its automatically junk? As for getting what you pay for...thats not the case with most of my experiences especially with fly fishing gear.

 

[shakey]

a lot of people have misconceptions.

a lot of people who cry"buy american" are the same people who won't use eagle claw hooks.

crazy world.

 

[PennKev]

shakey wrote:
a lot of people have misconceptions.

a lot of people who cry"buy american" are the same people who won't use eagle claw hooks.

crazy world.

It's not so much "Buy American!" as it is "DON'T BUY Chinese, Mexican, etc.!" for most people who complain about foreign goods. These countries being distasteful for consumers for a variety of reasons, not least of which are nationalistic, political, and racist. Some are also stuck thinking that the manufacturing capabilities of other countries haven't advanced in the last 30+ years.

Also, the reason some of the products from these countries are in fact junk, is because we (collectively) are dumb enough to buy junk. On the other hand, if we are willing to pay just a little more, and refuse inferior products, China and elsewhere are completely capable of producing a great piece of gear.

 

[moon1284]

Yes I've tried them. I can cast them but they are inferior to real lines.

How many people fly fish in China? Are they developing their own products or blatantly copying American ones? Anyone can copy things, I'm willing to pay for the real deal.

 

[poopdeck]

Manufacturing can be brought back in a heartbeat to satisfy any demand.

Not in a society with this degree of regulation. Everything's grandfathered but good luck doin anything new. Replace a bridge? No problem. Build a new one? Uh, yeah, maybe you'll break ground in 25 years.

I stand corrected, unions and/or suffocating regulation.