Drilling Near Lake Arthur

greenghost

greenghost

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They are considering drilling less than a mile from Moraine State Park now? And while this article was slanted toward complacency, I do not share that attitude at all. I know in the late 60s, while they were prepping the area for damming Muddy Creek, they had to cap many, many old wells under the lake and in the area. IMO, the potential to cause catastrophic damage by messing with the geology to extract the gas is greater here. I am seriously concerned here. And suggest if you are too, you take action via this link.
 
There are already a number of Marcellus wells in the area. Are capped wells causing problems with them?
 
IMO, the potential to cause catastrophic damage by messing with the geology to extract the gas is greater here.

Please explain.
 
Pcray. IMO the wells already drilled are conduits to the surface. Even though "capped" ... that was over 50 years ago when both technology and processes were not as advanced or "watched over." As they are now. And even now... Incidents of troubles caused by deep fracking have been reported and range from methane released into water table polluting wells to earthquakes and other issues. I do not trust the companies and their integrity. The technology and science may be there. I do not trust the people in charge. Mistakes happen. Human error occurs. This lake, park and resources are at risk. They far exceed the value of the gas extracted. That's what I mean.
 
Well, virtually all Marcellus wells in the western portion of the state exist in places where old wells exist.

FWIW, the horizontal portion of a Marcellus well is WWAAAAYYY below the depth of those legacy wells, so there's not a ton of danger from that.

Where there is danger is the vertical portion of the well, much of which is obviously nearer to the surface. Part of that is sealed, so seal issues are one potential source of the trouble (which exists everywhere, with or without legacy wells).

Where legacy wells add a complicating factor is at the depth deeper than the seal, but still not deeper than those legacy wells. You are pressurizing ground with a possible conduit to the surface. The key would be how far, laterally, the legacy wells are from the Marcellus well. I don't pretend to know what the critical distances are, and certainly would not be in favor of pushing those limits. And one problem is the sometimes poor mapping of those legacy wells, hence despite making an effort to avoid them, some are there that they just don't know about.

That said, stating that this is a more dangerous situation than normal because legacy wells exist just does not convey enough. By that standard, half the state would be off limits. If you have any info on what those critical distances are, and that the proposed wells are pushing safety limits, by all means, let us know, and then I'm on your side. Until then, it just sounds like a NIMBY argument, which I rarely give much credence to.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Until then, it just sounds like a NIMBY argument, which I rarely give much credence to.

lol... This is not NIMBY. This is public park land. It's NIEBY (not in everyone's backyard!) With an added bonus of a huge lake that has a potential of being ruined by the fracking should methane work its way up, no matter how far under they are. It is far from a typical NIMBY situation.
 
greenghost would you like to see a total ban on fracking in the state of PA?
 
JasonS wrote:
greenghost would you like to see a total ban on fracking in the state of PA?

Why yes, of course... If we could still get relatively cheap domestic gas to supply our nation's needs.

C'mon, we all know we need to extract this resource. My contention is just not at the price of wholesale risk to those areas we value most as a society-- our treasured parks, forests, wetlands, etc.
 
While I do agree we value our treasured parks, forests and wetlands
I fear we MAY be in the minority. Many are only concerned, and rightfully so due to NIMBY. Their water can be affected. Others with money, NOT in our area, apparently don't care and only want the resource to make more money.

I also wonder how many more people are making money off of the Marcellus Shale and don't realize it, through mutual funds, IRA's, etc. Heck, I probably make some myself and am not even aware of it.
 
Of course you are.

Not just directly through IRA's, mutual funds, and the like. But also because it holds down energy prices, including electricity. Plus even more indirectly in that it's pumping money into the local economies which helps everyone.

In addition, there's an environmental benefit, as coal power plants are shutting down all over the place because of a healthy supply of gas, which is cleaner than coal.

That's not to downplay the dangers that do exist from gas. Just that in the grand scheme, they are better than the alternative. Still, it can and should be done as wisely as possible. And I too have concerns over companies pushing the safety limits to make an extra buck.

The part of this I'm failing to understand is greenghost's assertion that this particular well is more of a danger than all the other wells. I'm open to being on his side, but I need some logical reason why this one is more dangerous. Bringing up Dimock does nothing towards this. It's an example of a well that went bad, as have a couple of others, out of over 4000 Marcellus wells in the state now (and 200,000+ shallow wells that were all fracked as well). The key to verifying Dimock seemed to be that the methane levels were higher the closer you get to the well. That is a bit of a smoking gun, however, it also verifies that the gas migration was not from depth up through the overlying rock, nor through legacy wells, but rather, up the bore-hole for THAT well. i.e. either the seal near the surface wasn't sound, or else, it wasn't deep enough. i.e. it has nothing to do with the surrounding geology, legacy wells, or anything. It's either poor design or poor execution on the part of the driller.
 
Dude you're just behind the times. We can build roads with solar panels, we can put windmills up everywhere, our cars can run off corn, and we can build new cars that run off AA bateries. No need for fossil fuels anymore.
 
greenghost wrote:
pcray1231 wrote:
Until then, it just sounds like a NIMBY argument, which I rarely give much credence to.

lol... This is not NIMBY. This is public park land. It's NIEBY (not in everyone's backyard!) With an added bonus of a huge lake that has a potential of being ruined by the fracking should methane work its way up, no matter how far under they are. It is far from a typical NIMBY situation.

It IS in my back yard!!!
 
There is a well site already set up next to the Pilot station at the 422/I79 intersection. There doesn't seem to be any activity there yet, but there is all the equipment. It looks like all they need to do is flip a switch and start.

Kev
 
I've been watching that also Kev, been there for a while now, not sure what the story is. There are a couple wells that have been drilled on the edge of McConnell's mill st park also, and I know of at least one well that sits about a mile and a half due north of lake Arthur.
 
That's pretty normal. These guys work in teams. i.e. it starts with a landscape team, and they come in and get the pad setup and all that. Then it may sit empty for a while. Then the drilling team comes in and does their part. Then it sits empty again. Then the fracking guys come in. etc. etc.

For shallow gas, each of those crews may only be there 1 or 2 days, maybe 3 or 4 for the drillers, with months in between. For Marcellus, each step takes longer, especially the drilling.
 
Nobody claimed it was 100% safe.

But comparison: Here's the coal plants that have or are about to shut down due to Marcellus:

 

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No one but industry officials sir
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Of course you are.

Not just directly through IRA's, mutual funds, and the like. But also because it holds down energy prices, including electricity. Plus even more indirectly in that it's pumping money into the local economies which helps everyone.

Yeah, pcray, yeah, imagine electric costs here in PA over the last few years if natural gas had not offset overall energy. These people do not realize their PECO and MetEd rates have been absurdly suppressed for years.

Drill babby drill imo!
 
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