Doubting Euro-Nymphin

[Sylvaneous]

My last 3 trips to , no, 4. Four trips to 4 of the cathedrals of Pennsylvania trout fishing doing euronymphing have NOT been productive. I've been pretty decent at this fly fishing thing in the past. It would be a shame if I spent 35 years working at it and not being in the upper 50th percentile. I also know what flies work, as they have worked for me over the past 25 years (when I really think I came into my own under the tutelage of truly good Lehigh Valley anglers.)
I am not sure how really productive, all around, this Euronymphing thing is for me. How skilled at this game, must one be, and what ARE those skills? I've done everything besides have George Daniel stand behind me while I fish.
ONe thing I believe may have been an issue is that I was over-weighting my rig. I am using the drop shot method and was fishing an AB shot quite often. Lower/deeper is better, right? I think it may have arrested and interrupted the drift instead of putting the fly down INTO the drift. Maybe a lighter shot, but I got tired of fishing that way without success . I switched to a dry/dropper and commensed to do very well on both flies.

Another breach of the approved narrative is my lack of success on inchworms. Don Douple himself called them a magic fly, preceded by the statement that there IS NO magic fly. I don't do very well on them, and I have been directed by the man himself on tying and fishing them. Then I got some green SquirmyWorm material and did poorly. No, let me say I didn't catch a fish on them, while I caught 2 trout on the trailing wet ant. And I took this approach to see if I could get an inchworm fly that worked better for me than the wrapped chinelle fly on a curved hook.

Color me disillusioned on these 2 topics. ONe thing that is sure, though is the effectiveness of a dry/dropper this time of year. It kills.
Syl.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

While it changed my life in terms of nymphing, even streamer fishing, I have never given up on other methods because it is certainly not the right approach all the time, and I am happy that I did not learn to fly fish this way but instead learned it much later in my fishing career and use it as another arrow in the quiver. It is malleable though. In dry dropper conditions, for example, I can float the sighter with some payette. I also scale way down on a mono rig and can toss a single size 18 fly. Not a fan of dropshotting because too much weight means less sensitivity. Tightlining is kind of a misnomer in a lot of conditions. You can't be tight with small bugs, just tight-ish, and the bit of slack helps strike indication too. As far as limitations of dry dropper vs euro nymphing, I am only 53 but I loose sight of even the highest floating stimulator in broken water or odd light in the summer. I can fish shallow riffles like a boss with a single bug and micro-mono rig, however.

I am totally with you on inchworms.

 

[Smokeypro]

Euro or tighline nymphing has been exceptionally effective for me. I have not been on the water and been skunked since adapting this technique. My days are typically 5+ fish on the "challenging" streams like upper delaware or other high pressure fisheries. I find the biggest faults is not too much weight, its not keeping the correct pace. I have a tendency to fish with my anchor flies that are heavier than nescessary to make sure i am getting to the bottom. Making sure I am keeping pace with the water column you are fishing will help. Even if your flies are overweight and you drag your anchor fly it has not inhibited my success. If anything it has amplified it. I always fish a two fly rig. My dropper is 18-24 inches above my anchor fly. My hook up rate is close to 50/50 between the flies. The flexibility to change depth is the major advantage. I also use a tag dropper setup so that I can feel the take on my upper fly. Fly choice is the smallest component with tight-line from my experience. Location and pace is 80% the key to success. My learning curve was steep. Within first few hours of executing the new technique I improved. If you are still struggling, please reach out or refresh your perspective by re watching videos or reading.

 

[JeffK]

Any fly fishing techniques can have their ups and downs -as the old cliché goes that's why they call it fishing and not catching. One of my fly fishing buddies and I typically Euronymph until the fish start rising. We share tips and try to help each other out, but some days he will catch a ton of fish and I have trouble touching a fish and other days it is the opposite. Slight differences in drift (of which weight is only a part) can make a huge difference in results. One day this spring I was crushing them with a heavy fly first and a small light one at the point while he was drop shot fishing and catching nothing. He changed up and starting catching. Some indicator or dry dropper is the ticket. BTW, the drop rig doesn't have to be heavy - you can use any size shot.

You have to mix it up to catch fish some days and that can be a short or long process depending on the day. Also, some days I am just not on and others I am in the zone. If it was easy all the time it wouldn't be fun.

 

[Dr.J 1952]

As the others have said, it's whatever works for you. When I started fly fishing thirty plus years ago, fishing with a strike indicator was relatively new. If you've taken up fly fishing in the last ten years, Euro nymphing is the latest. I am a fly-tying junkie and am always looking for new patterns. I tie a lot of Euro flies. I have caught fish using a Euro rig and a regular rig using Euro flies. I weight all my Euro flies usually with both tungsten beads and wraps of lead wire. Unless it is fast and deeper water, I rarely use split shot. In fact, lately, I weight most of my nymphs up to size 18. When fishing with a strike indicator, I usually fish two or three flies in line tied through the eyes of the hooks. My friend calls it "the smorgasbord". My point fly is about 10' from the indicator, shorter on shallower water. This is the method I prefer on bigger water. Euro fishing seems to work better on smaller water. I have caught fish Euro fishing on the narrow runs of Spruce Creek in the regulated area close to the highway. On the other hand, I caught a 30" steelhead this fall on a small Lake Erie tributary on a #16 Egan Red Dart. I saw a YouTube video where a guy was showing Euro rig techniques. The indicator method doesn't work for everyone. He said he never did well nymphing until he started Euro fishing. I'll be seventy in November. I'm not spending money on a new Euro rig, but I have adapted my regular fly rod ( 9' 4/5 wt. IM6 graphite). I did buy a Rio Shorty Euro line which I have on another spool. I also construct my own Euro leaders ( see another post of mine). My friend has been Euro nymphing a lot the last two years and I usually out fish him. But it's not just the method, it's familiarity with the water you are fishing, fly selection, experience and sometimes thinking outside the box. And then, there are times when the trout just ain't feeding. Whatever works for you.

 

[Tigereye]

I struggled with EN at first. My nymphing until then consisted of either dry dropper or Indy style, and I was successful enough to be satisfied that I was doing something right.

My first attempts at EN were disastrous. After 2 years of on and off attempts, watching videos and reading the books, I still had lack luster results. Then I booked a trip with Dom Swentosky of Troutbitten. Told him I don't care if I catch a fish just teach me what I'm doing wrong. He was fantastic and it upped my EN nymph game considerably. It is now my first option if there is no surface activity. Double digit fish days are the norm now. If you really want improve, I highly recommend a date with him.

I will say that in my experience EN has its drawbacks in certain situations. If you can't approach fish due to water clarity/spooky fish, or due to high or rough water, EN is not a good first choice, at least for me. Its a close quarters game. So I guess it all depends where and how you fish.

As for fly selection, I am really beginning to think in most nymphing situations fly size and presentation have more impact on success than specific pattern. I have noticed that most of the experts use attractors ie frenchies, darts etc than they do matching the hatch ie sulfur. BWO etc. I have caught most fish this year on a rusty colored perdigon in 14 and 16.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

My last 3 trips to , no, 4. Four trips to 4 of the cathedrals of Pennsylvania trout fishing doing euronymphing have NOT been productive. I've been pretty decent at this fly fishing thing in the past. It would be a shame if I spent 35 years working at it and not being in the upper 50th percentile. I also know what flies work, as they have worked for me over the past 25 years (when I really think I came into my own under the tutelage of truly good Lehigh Valley anglers.)
I am not sure how really productive, all around, this Euronymphing thing is for me. How skilled at this game, must one be, and what ARE those skills? I've done everything besides have George Daniel stand behind me while I fish.
ONe thing I believe may have been an issue is that I was over-weighting my rig. I am using the drop shot method and was fishing an AB shot quite often. Lower/deeper is better, right? I think it may have arrested and interrupted the drift instead of putting the fly down INTO the drift. Maybe a lighter shot, but I got tired of fishing that way without success . I switched to a dry/dropper and commensed to do very well on both flies.

Another breach of the approved narrative is my lack of success on inchworms. Don Douple himself called them a magic fly, preceded by the statement that there IS NO magic fly. I don't do very well on them, and I have been directed by the man himself on tying and fishing them. Then I got some green SquirmyWorm material and did poorly. No, let me say I didn't catch a fish on them, while I caught 2 trout on the trailing wet ant. And I took this approach to see if I could get an inchworm fly that worked better for me than the wrapped chinelle fly on a curved hook.

Color me disillusioned on these 2 topics. ONe thing that is sure, though is the effectiveness of a dry/dropper this time of year. It kills.
Syl.

You know my feeling on these types of things... Just the latest in the FFing hipster culture-gotta sell everyone 12' "nymphing rods"! I keep mine next to my Tenkara rod and my 20wt streamer rods...

In all seriousness (and yes-that WAS a joke!), I'm w/ you on the dry-dropper. From May through the 2nd week in October, that's how I roll.

 

[Dr.J 1952]

Tigereye may have summed it up best. Regardless of the method, it is the prestation that matters. Reading water is important. We've caught fish on Spruce Creek and Yellow Creek ( Bedford County) using nothing but a few turns of olive or grey Ice Dub on size 18 and 20 hooks. I landed a 20" brown on Spring Creek once on #18 tan caddis pupa ( I thought I had a snag). I once saw a guy walk thirty yards upstream in the middle of the stream. I'd hate to go deer hunting with that guy. LOL

 

[bdhoover77]

I’ve been almost exclusively using a euro setup this year. I've had some good days but not really what I expected. So I’ve been thinking about putting away the euro rod and just going with a dry-dropper setup or using an indicator rig on a traditional fly rod. Alternatively I may just put the fly line on my euro rod and use a shorter leader to get the same effect. I am really not a fan of using the mono rig setup; I definitely prefer the feel of handling and casting fly line.

Of course there’s also the possibility that I need to find another place to fish than my home stream. Just to change things up.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Most common mistake I see with contact nymphing is reaching too far, not adjusting weight, and needing some work on their tuck cast and transition into tracking the nymphs. Stay within a rod length out across from you and two rod lengths upstream of you. Many times people try to start their drift up and across at 45 degrees 2 rod lengths away and drag is immediate but not obvious.

If your overweighted as you suggested you may not be feeling bites and hanging up too much. Flows are low as heck in alot of places so AB sounds like alot for the Big 4-6 PA limestones I assume your talking about.

Many people do the rough hand motion for a tuck cast but the flies don’t tuck for one reason or another. Consider going more high velocity low amplitude(shorter stroke) with the cast to make sure the abrupt stop truly tucks the nymphs allowing them to drop in a slack line. Recover slack with a hand twist then when you track your nymphs experiment with varying degrees of tension in the line just like you experiment with weights. Your always going to feel more bites under tension but alot of people die on that hill so to speak when they are not catching fish because the tension can create micro drag so even if you do not feel as many the better drift picks up more fish. Less tension may also allow you to actually drop the flies into the nooks and crannies in a real non uniform boldery stream bottom which can make all the differences instead of draging across the tops of bolders on a tight line over the trout’s heads. Experiment with tension like youll see in the orvis george daniel video but then if no success, actually try a small amount of sag/slack and less weight if fishing very close in front of you and more weight if casting further upstream.

These are general recommendations aimed at common issues with contact techniques And without seeing what your doing and the water and set up its tough. And I am an enthusiatic amature not an expert.

Try switching to a Roth rock leader(instructions on his website and blog) and try fishing direct upstream with your hips turned upstream. I find sometimes when i am not catching fish My hips are facing opposite bank which invites casts more than a rod length across from you that drag right away. Fishing straight upstream at a farther distance from fish in low water conditions with something like a rothrock leader that has a second sighter section up higher and is better at fishing with a little amount of sag if you want it in my opinion might be the ticket. If you are fishing pretty shallow water and far away in front of you like 2 rod lengths, you can disregard my advice on getting a good tuck somewhat in my opinion because with that style your more laying it on the water recovering slack, leaving some sag, and looking at the second sighter on the back of the roth rock leader not the first which can be underwater often.

Hope it helps, also if you werent pounding banks under tree branches in shade and were out in the middle of shallow sunny riffles that can hurt ya this time of year as well.

At end of the day sunny conditions, low water and fish that get caught 8 times a year in some cases or more can be tough. Not everyone belives in long lining with a little sag, they will tell ya “ its the devil Bobby”. If you want a tension contact technique that does not use sag what is referred to french/spanish nymphing with super fine leader(3x butt sometimes), 30 foot long, and very short drifts to targeted small areas from a distance, i have had success with this too but not as much. The leader is really not versatile though. Others will tell you you don’t need that specialized leader to do that technique and they may be right.

 

[Nocktavius]

I admittedly didn’t take the time to read all the other replies in detail so forgive me if most of this has already been covered:

I had a similar slump when I was getting back into contact nymphing because I was over weighting my rigs and not targeting the real “strike zone”. It’s generally obvious when your nymphs are too light, but I’ve also found that the really heavy flies and adding split shot aren’t particularly effective except in high fast water. We’ve been tying our anchor flies in 4,6,8,10,12 and there’s just a sweet spot in weight for leading the flies (obviously it changes based on water type and current speed/depth) where they’re not really ticking bottom too hard but also slowing down relative to the surface current that gets the best strikes- I think one of the Troutbitten guys dubbed it the “downshift” and that describes it very well. Consider the feeding behavior of trout in spring and summer. They’re not podded on the bottom looking down like they do in winter to where a heavy rig would be targeting, they’re really looking in that like 1-6” window right above the bottom for nymphs, caddis, etc to bouncily drift/swim on by. Toss a live mayfly or big stonefly nymph in the water and watch it drift downstream- you’ll see this exact motion you should be mimicking. Lightening up my rig a bit and getting more proficient at tuck casting has made the biggest difference, as has switching to indicator nymphing when water type and cast distance dictates. That extra little bit of suspension really does create for a more natural drift on bottom in certain scenarios. Adding things like rubber legs, and using more buoyant tying materials also frequently gets more of that tantalizing bouncy drift that I think looks more natural. There’s a huge difference between how a beadhead green weenie and a perdigon travel in the water, and both have their value in respective water types but really learning when to use one or the other makes a big difference. I find myself adjusting flies more frequently than ever to match water type- the size 6 is coming off as soon as I’m out of this heavy riffle and the 8/10 is going on.

Beyond this, consider time of day (on central PA limestoners I’d wager if you’re not on the water at first light from mid-April onward you slept in too much and missed the best action of the day), the water type where they’re feeding and can best be caught seems to change frequently, of course pattern selection to at least somewhat match the emerging hatch (color seems to be very important to these wild fish lately)- and having the confidence to say “there are definitely fish in this seam and my fly selection/ weight is the problem.” There’s also way more pressure on the central PA big 4 since fly fishing exploded in popularity in 2020 so doing things like getting out on less popular stretches, getting up earlier, etc will put more fish in your net

 

[Tonykocis]

I started out with heavy flies and it works good in the spring. I went with Josh Miller, a great guide and former fly fishing usa team member, he showed me lighter rigs, dry dropper euro rigs and my game got better. I consistently catch fish on little j, Penns, spring creek etc... some days are slow 10 fish, some days are great, 70 fish. 10 fish days are long and hard, I can't understand why a properly drifted Nymph put right in front of fish won't work one day and the next it's lights out. I've come to the conclusion that the fish do not have to eat all the time, there is so much food in these streams they can pick and choose.
Spring creek will teach you the most, the fish hit so fast and the flies are spit out instantly if you aren't tight to the line as soon as you cast. They get so much pressure.

Other observations:

The West Branch of the Delaware, I've had limited success euro nymphing. the bottom is consistent and long drifts that cover lots of water are needed, dry dropper works better unless you get in a spot that you can get close to the fish or it has a bunch of pocket water.

Out west has also been a struggle, the wind is usually a factor out there and it makes euro nymphing harder, of course you can add a strike indicator at the end of your sighter, but it's not as fun. Also, out west the fish seem to come up to the surface much easier, even with no hatch so dry dropper seems to be just as effective. One exception is the smaller rivers and creeks where you can get close, euro works great, just sometimes the wind is still an issue.

Nymphing in general in Pa falls off big time after mid June, there just aren't as many nymphs in the water and I tend to switch to dries as much as possible or terrestrials. If I nymph it's sinking ants, or very small flies.

 

[Dr.J 1952]

There is a good podcast by Fly Fish Food out of Utah about changing tactics. It can be found on YouTube, it's episode 25. This is the shop Lance Egan is associated with. Even Lance says he doesn't Euro nymph all the time.

 

[PennKev]

My last 3 trips to , no, 4. Four trips to 4 of the cathedrals of Pennsylvania trout fishing doing euronymphing have NOT been productive. I've been pretty decent at this fly fishing thing in the past. It would be a shame if I spent 35 years working at it and not being in the upper 50th percentile. I also know what flies work, as they have worked for me over the past 25 years (when I really think I came into my own under the tutelage of truly good Lehigh Valley anglers.)
I am not sure how really productive, all around, this Euronymphing thing is for me.

How many days have you spent really, actually, exclusively spent focused on euro/tightline fishing?

Four is not enough to learn any technique really, at least not in a way where you understand it rather than just try to replicate the motions. Tight lining requires a different touch than dead drifting indi rigs or dry/dropper and it takes some time to develop that.

Also as others have said, location and conditions can play a big factor in success. If you are battling the low/clear later summer conditions, those are the most difficult for tight-lining (or for many techniques really). And I agree with your observations on dry/dropper. Sometimes that it is the ticket. Particularly , small water or low water.