Clarity on closed approved trout waters

[topher465]

Sorry if this has been covered, but the details of what is closed and not is a little murky, at least to me.

The PFBC pamphlet states that waters are closed from the headwaters to the mouth unless geographically noted. Most of the waters I see have notes where the trout are stocked, both the upstream and downstream points. I’d assume the whole stream would be closed, but the geographical note adds a bit of confusion. Also, does that include all the tributaries? Anyone who might have some insight, that would be appreciated.

 

[afishinado]

Sorry if this has been covered, but the details of what is closed and not is a little murky, at least to me.

The PFBC pamphlet states that waters are closed from the headwaters to the mouth unless geographically noted. Most of the waters I see have notes where the trout are stocked, both the upstream and downstream points. I’d assume the whole stream would be closed, but the geographical note adds a bit of confusion. Also, does that include all the tributaries? Anyone who might have some insight, that would be appreciated.

Here is a link to the 2023 Summary Book >

https://www.fishandboat.com/Fishing/Regulations/Documents/2023SummaryBook.pdf

On pages 25-36 is a list of stocked trout waters in detail.

Fishing is allowed C&R in all waters not listed above, plus in Special Reg areas open to fishing year-round.

Contact the FBC if you are unsure of any certain stream.

 

[topher465]

Here is a link to the 2023 Summary Book >

https://www.fishandboat.com/Fishing/Regulations/Documents/2023SummaryBook.pdf

On pages 25-36 is a list of stocked trout waters in detail.

Fishing is allowed C&R in all waters not listed above, plus in Special Reg areas open to fishing year-round.

Contact the FBC if you are unsure of any certain stream.

Thanks for the reply — my question is, if there is a certain section of a stream which is approved trout waters, is the whole stream closed?

 

[afishinado]

Thanks for the reply — my question is, if there is a certain section of a stream which is approved trout waters, is the whole stream closed?

Read the listing in the summary book I posted above It gives details locations of stocking points upstream and downstream. Call the FBC if you are unsure.

 

[topher465]

Read the listing in the summary book I posted above It gives details locations of stocking points upstream and downstream. Call the FBC if you are unsure.

I think our wires are getting a little crossed. Here’s an example below — is the section they refer here the ONLY section closed on valley creek, or is the whole thing closed?

 

[Dave_W]

Topher465,

We go through this debate every year during the closed season. You may wish to review some of the long threads on this topic from the past (please don't refresh these old threads). The issue has been unclear for years

The consensus is that yes - you can fish (catch and release) on streams listed as approved trout waters (AKA stocked trout waters) as long as you are not within the boundaries of the area that is stocked.

I believe the section you're looking at is West Valley Creek(?), which is different than Valley Creek. If it's stocked, and managed under general regulations, you can't fish that section.
Valley Creek is not stocked and is open to catch and release fishing.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Stock trout= angler lockout

i love it, they lock you out of some of the best streams(without stocked fish) for a longer period of time than the majority of the stocked trout survive.

A net loss for anglers

 

[Mike]

I don’t see a lock out. I see the opportunity to fish much more water than was traditionally allowed during the preseason stocking period.

 

[Bamboozle]

I think our wires are getting a little crossed. Here’s an example below — is the section they refer here the ONLY section closed on valley creek, or is the whole thing closed?

It's really NOT that confusing...

IF a "Stocked Trout Water" is listed IN THE SUMMARY BOOKLET (NOT the stocking list) by NAME ONLY with NO BOUNDARIES specified, the entire stream is closed during the Closed Period headwaters to mouth.

I haven't bothered to check but I believe there is no longer a single stream listed only by name in the entire Summary.

Using this as an example:

If ALL of Valley Creek West (AKA West Valley) was closed it would read: Valley Creek West.

However it is specifying a SECTION of Valley Creek West, which is coincidentally Section 2, the "Stocked Trout Waters" section.

Section 3 the Delayed Harvest Section is obviously open as are Sections 1 & 4 which are NOT stocked and also NOT listed in the Summary Booklet as "Stocked Trout Waters."

The only thing you have to double check is IF a stream runs through multiple counties, you should check the Stocked Trout Waters lists in the Summary Booklet for ALL counties through which the stream travels.

Good fishin'!!

 

[Fish Sticks]

I don’t see a lock out. I see the opportunity to fish much more water than was traditionally allowed during the preseason stocking period.

But its not requiring stream closures for the fisheries that already exist in them. Your comparing this to a past even bigger lock out for stocking?

 

[MBWCC]

The definitive answer is in the regulations:

§ 63.3. Fishing in stocked trout waters.​

It is unlawful to fish in stocked trout waters regulated under § 61.1 (relating to Commonwealth inland waters) from 12:01 a.m. on the third Monday in February to 8 a.m. on the opening day of the regular season for trout. As used in this subpart, the term ‘‘stocked trout waters’’ means waters that are stocked with adult trout by the Commission. A listing of stocked trout waters is published in the Commission’s ‘‘Summary of Fishing Regulations and Laws,’’ which is available from the Commission at Post Office Box 67000, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17106-7000. The Executive Director or a designee may, from time to time, supplement or modify the list of stocked trout waters, and additions or deletions will be published in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.

The above tells you that the definitive list of stocked trout waters is published in the summary book.

Things get a bit confusing when this phrase (also found in the summary book) is inserted in the official description:

"Unless geographically designated in the Region Regulated Trout Waters section, the term stocked trout waters includes the entire stream from headwaters to mouth."

First, I haven't been around since day one of the Fish & Boat Commission and I don't know the entire historical laws and code. I suspect the quoted phrase may be a bookend (catchall) phrase which is either mostly or completely irrelevant today as today virtually every stream is (may be) listed with geographical limits. I don't know every stream in every region so I will not risk offering a broad brush statement regarding the entire state. However, for the southeast region I don't know of a stocked trout water that doesn't have geographical limits listed in the summary book. Even when considering just the SE region I may have mentally blocked an exception --trust but verify being the operant phrase for this discussion.

 

[Mikey2006]

just to clarify because i was gonna fish a creek tomorrow and the thought didn't even cross my mind that it could be closed to fishing until i saw this thread: If i were to fish the conococheague starting at the old reservoir and fishing upstream, that would be fine right? it says the stocked section ends at the old dam, so i assume i would be allowed to fish upstream from there. It sounds like a stupid question but I've had issues with things like this before, where I've been caught fishing water that unknown to me I wasn't supposed too be fishing. It seems like whenever i think i have everything figured out i find out I was wrong and actually cant fish where i want to fish. This is the first year where i'm old enough that i have to buy a license so i don't feel like taking any risks since i assume i would no longer just receive a warning and would actually get a citation.

 

[Bamboozle]

The section of the Conococheague UPSTREAM of the dam (Section 1) is open to catch & release fishing as is the creek BELOW the Boyer's Mill Road bridge to the PA State Line.

 

[Mikey2006]

The section of the Conococheague UPSTREAM of the dam (Section 1) is open to catch & release fishing as is the creek BELOW the Boyer's Mill Road bridge to the PA State Line.

Ok thx for clearing that up

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Ok thx for clearing that up.

Venturing up Long Pine Run could add a little water for you to cover.To my knowledge its not on the Natural Reproduction list but I have caught trout on Long Pine ( below reservoir.)

 

[Mikey2006]

Venturing up Long Pine Run could add a little water for you to cover.To my knowledge its not on the Natural Reproduction list but I have caught trout on Long Pine ( below reservoir.)

I’m only gonna have a couple hours today so I’ll probably stick to the conococheague, but I’ve walked about a quarter mile up long pine from the bridge and it looked great. I didn’t catch any but that was when I didn’t know what I was doing

 

[pcray1231]

I’d assume the whole stream would be closed, but the geographical note adds a bit of confusion. Also, does that include all the tributaries? Anyone who might have some insight, that would be appreciated.

To answer the OP.

Only the section listed is closed to all fishing. If it lists the whole stream, the whole stream is closed. If it lists a section, only that section is closed.

It does not include tributaries unless they are listed as well.

Anywhere not listed is open to fishing on a C&R basis.

That means the vast majority of our trout water in the state is open to C&R fishing during the closed season. Only stocked sections are closed.

 

[wgmiller]

Venturing up Long Pine Run could add a little water for you to cover.To my knowledge its not on the Natural Reproduction list but I have caught trout on Long Pine ( below reservoir.)

Take a machete with you.

On a related note, I looked at the book of fishing regulations and they've really done a lot to define where the upper and lower limits are on a given creek. Instead of having to cross-reference stocking limits through the stocking schedule with GPS points, the regs clearly spell out physical locations. To me, it makes it really easy to look a creek, figure out where the limits are, then stay outside of those limits.

 

[dc410]

On a related note, I looked at the book of fishing regulations and they've really done a lot to define where the upper and lower limits are on a given creek. Instead of having to cross-reference stocking limits through the stocking schedule with GPS points, the regs clearly spell out physical locations. To me, it makes it really easy to look a creek, figure out where the limits are, then stay outside of those limits.

I totally agree. Given the resources that we have at our fingertips today, it’s really not hard to figure it out on any given fishery.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Take a machete with you.

On a related note, I looked at the book of fishing regulations and they've really done a lot to define where the upper and lower limits are on a given creek. Instead of having to cross-reference stocking limits through the stocking schedule with GPS points, the regs clearly spell out physical locations. To me, it makes it really easy to look a creek, figure out where the limits are, then stay outside of those limits.

Yep,thick rhodo and down hemlocks. Snakes too. Not as hard on the waders as the briars growing up farms of yesteryear. Not as many snakes compared to the " boulder fields" in some parts of the state.