Buying second Rod, need Size / weight advice.

[ratherbfishing]

Hello All,
I am somewhat of a fly fishing rookie compared to most of you guys, and so I don't quite have the arsenal of rods and reels that I want. I am thinking of buying a second rod and reel in the next couple of months, and I am not quite sure what would make sense. I live in South central PA (York Co.) and will be using this setup on the streams in that area. I currently have a 9ft 6wt, which I have found to be a great all around rod, but sometimes a bit long for fishing on smaller streams, or where overhead is crowded. I would like to go with something smaller (7' or 7'6) in either 4wt or 5wt. What would you guys recommend? THANKS!! :-D

 

[MKern]

If you have a 6 wt. you might as well go with a 4 wt.

For instance, I have a 2wt., 4wt., 6 wt. You can definately skip a wt. because of the similarities between a 4 and a 5 and a 5 and a 6.

I think you'll be satisfied with either a 7' or 7'6". If I had to choose on length I'd go 7'6".

 

[pcray1231]

I think you've answered your own question. I respectfully disagree with MKern's reasoning. Your other outfit plays no part in your reasoning, you are buying a rod for a certain type of stream and buy what will work best for those streams, period. If you already have a 6 wt, choosing a 4 wt over a 5wt because its farther from your other rod makes no sense to me. Now, if the 4 wt will work better for what you intend to do with it, thats a different story. But there are far bigger differences between rods than what weight line they throw, such as length and action.

For instance, I have four 5 wts and a 7wt. The 5 weights all have different lengths and actions and each serve a purpose. I got my long, powerful rod ideal for nymphs, streamers, and fine for most dries as well (i.e. my all-round rod). I have a softer 8 ft bamboo for standard dry fly duty. I have a short stiff rod for brookies in tight brush. I have a medium action 9 footer as a backup rod. And the 7wt is for steelhead and bass. If I were to buy a new rod for say, salmon, and felt my 7 wt was too light, the fact that I have a 7 wt has no bearing on the new rod, I'd be buying the rod that would work best for salmon. It could even be another 7wt with a stronger backbone.

If anything, I like it because I can get away with less reels and lines. One reel covers three of 5 wts, just switch it and change the leader and you're ready to go. The bamboo gets its own reel because it requires a heavier reel to balance it.

Bottom line: Decide which of your situations will be covered by the old rod and the new one first. After that, leave the old rod completely out of the equation. Just focus on buying the best tool for what the new rod will be asked to do.

 

[MKern]

pcray, I completely agree, but when someone is starting out with a couple rods spacing them like that helps.

After all I have 4 4wts; 2 of them are the same blank. I have 5 wt.s and 6 wts., but I started by skipping.

 

[jcspey]

Personally just lately i bought another rod for smaller/brushy water where my 8-9' rods were too long. I normally use 5/6 for trout and a 7/8 for other larger fish.

So when I bought a new rod i went with a 7' 4/5 rod. I use it with a 4 wt Rio LT Trout when I cast smaller flies, delicacy or short cast and move up to the 5 wt line when i want to roll or speycast streamers or other bigger flies in creeks. That's my two cents.

jcspey

 

[troutslammer]

i bought a 7'6" albright A-5 4 wt and i love it , lined it with 5 wt double taper , roll casts like a dream , can throw streamers etc. skipping weights can make sense to me , i certainly would not want another 5wt in a 7' rod for brookie streams and i certainly wouldn't want a 9'3wt , i pair up the wt of the rod with the length but i do alot of things that don't make sense....just ask my wife

 

[ratherbfishing]

I think I see what you are saying pcray, and that it kind of where I was trying to go with this question. I guess the rod that I would be looking for would be an all around small to medium stream trout rod, that would be used to throw smallish to medium flies. I have never had any trouble throwing larger stuff with my 6wt, except maybe some heavily weighted streamers or when using split shot. But I do find (to me at least, could be my shabby casting :-D ) that it is tough to throw smaller, lighter flies with. And the length portion just comes from the times I found myself wishing I had a shorter rod. I guess really what I would like to know is under what circumstances do you guys use what rod weight, length, and action.

 

[pcray1231]

length: mostly governed by the size of stream and brush dynamics. Generally, the smaller and brushier, the shorter the rod you want to use. The basic rule is to use the longest rod you can get away with, but not longer. Long rods allow you to get the line off the water for drag free drifts and high stick nymphing, they help protect tippets, they help keep your line high when casting, they make mending easier, etc. Short rods require less room to cast efficiently, and are easier to walk with in thick areas.

Action: This has more to do with the type of fishing. Nymphs and streamers favor a fast rod. Brush also favors a fast rod, as you often need tight loops to get up under that Hemlock bough. Slow placid waters, delicacy, and small dries are the realm of softer actions. Light tippets too are the realm of a soft action, the softer action helps protect the tippet. Some people choose soft actions because it allows a fish to show off a little once hooked, you feel the fight more, while others point to the same phenomenon as a strength of faster actions, saying you can land a fish quicker and handle bigger fish better. In the end, personal preference plays a large role as well. Some want to throw a fly way out there with the flick of the wrist like a fast action will do, and some want the relaxed casting feeling of a slower action.

Line weight: This is the less important than your other factors, IMO. Line weight is loosely correlated to action, but I stress "loosely." You can find fast 4 wts and slow 6 wts, but in general, the heavier the line weight the faster the rod. A heavier line will throw heavier flies, like weighted streamers, better, but you can do just fine throwing small dries with a heavy line too. Heavier line wt rods generally have more "backbone" which comes into play when fighting bigger fish. Softer actions have a tendency to load better at short distances, but that can be adjusted somewhat (see next paragraph), and it is more rod dependent than line weight dependent. But a lot of it is simply a matter of preference.

You can also, to a limited extent, adjust the action of a fly rod by changing the line weight you load it with. jcspey alluded to this.. Mostly this is adjusting the distance it properly loads at. If you have a 4 wt, loaded with 4 wt line, it probably casts great at 20-40 feet, and plenty good from 10-50 feet. If you load that same rod with 5 wt line, it will cast like a dream at 5-20 feet but get overloaded beyond that. Likewise, you can underline the rod, and it'll feel like a broomstick in close but really shine at distance.

 

[pcray1231]

As for your shabby casting on small flies, that shouldn't have much to do with length or line weight. You'd probably get more good out of adjusting the leader than changing the rod. That, and practice.

A new rod may force you to change your casting stroke, which may help you get better at casting. I've found using different rods has helped me learn how to get more out of any given rod. But that doesn't mean your current rod can't do it....

 

[JoeE]

IMO, one of the best all around lenghts/weights is a 7'6" 5 weight (classic). You can do both streamers and dries. You just have to be open to a 5 weight for some reason over the years everyone wants to go 1-2-3-4 for trout and leave the 5 weights then go 6-7-8 for bass. I think because most of the 4 weight I've pickup are better 5 weights than 4 weights.


Joe E

 

[khoferer]

Go to a shop and cast as many rods as you can. It would be hard to go wrong with any of the suggestions made here but you may find that rod that works best with your casting stroke.

FWIW, I often use a 7' 4wt. on smaller steams and have been happy with it. If I know I'll be fishing dries it's also a lot of fun on larger creeks.

Kevin

 

[ratherbfishing]

Thanks for all of the advice guys! This gives me quite a bit to consider, I will probably be going out to shops for a while, testing out all of the rods that are in my price range. I am also going to have to do some more specific thinking about where I will really be fishing this rod. Also, would it make sense to go with a slower 5wt, then underline it with 4wt line when fishing in tighter, bushier conditions, or would it be to difficult to cast at those shorter ranges. I was just thinking that having the ability to switch it up could be good. Good info though, for sure! Also, what are some decent rods in the 100 to 150 range. I got my current rod (Orvis Clearwater) from a relative for free . Not sure how it stacks up against other rods in it price range, but I like it alright. I have been looking at some of the Bass Pro rods, specifically the Classic Ultralight 5wt 7'6" (I think it is a 3 piece), but I am sure that there are other rods in that range that are comparable or better.

 

[pcray1231]

Also, would it make sense to go with a slower 5wt, then underline it with 4wt line when fishing in tighter, bushier conditions

Quite the opposite, if you change it up you want to overline when you expect short casts, and underline when you expect long casts.

With any rod, properly weight it first and give her a go, you may never need to change the line weight.

For what its worth, I started with a Bass Pro (White River Hobbs Creek). I loved that rod, nice smooth medium action. But, I broke it....

 

[JakesLeakyWaders]

I would agree with MKern and say if you buy a rod a few weights lighter than your current rod, you will actually have two very different rods instead two rods that are pretty much the same.

I have:

7' 9" #4 Tfo, my go to rod for trout

7' #5 White River, For fishing tight little streams with big nymphs, buggers

9' #7 for bass or larger

My next rod will be a 2 or 3 weight between 7 and 7.5 feet for small streams and smaller wild trout.

 

[ratherbfishing]

I have fished with a White River Dogwood canyon at one point, although it didn't belong to me. I really liked it and I believe it is the cheapest White River rod they offer! That was what lead me to look at the White River rods. I was actually considering the Hobbs Creek 7'6" 4wt 4 piece, its only 114 bucks with a reel, which I like . I have also been looking at the Cabelas Traditional II 7'6 4wt 4 piece with the Three Forks reel for about $140, they describe that as having a fast action, so I am leaning more to that setup. Any opinions on those?

 

[stevehalupka]

I condone skipping weights for reel purposes. If you own a 4 and six weight, a 5 wt. reel with an extra spool has dual purpose, as you can have one loaded with 4, and one with 6.

I say 3 forks all the way... I just got a 7' 6'' 3wt. and am happy, as I have a custom 2, and a custom 6. No need to go all out on 3-5 rods. I would save the cash for either a custom brookie rod, or a custom steel rod. My steel blank is rx8, and I'm extremely happy with it, but would never put the money I did into a trout rod.