Buying Direct

[Fredrick]

With the lack of fly shops these days and people buying everything online. Is buying direct the future of fly fishing gear ? With company's like Colton and Albright poping up and selling thier gear at retailer prices.

Here is a quote from the Colton website.

When a manufacturer uses a dealer network to handle the sale of their products the customer pays the ultimate price. Literally! Allow me to explain. If you buy a $200 fly rod from a retailer, that retailer made a 45-55% margin on that rod and no less. That means he paid around $90 for that rod. Now, obviously the manufacturer had to make some money when they sold it to the retailer. I have to think they made at least $50. Now this makes the approximate value of the rod $40.00 that you just paid $200.00 for! Doesn't seem fair does it? Times have changed. Gas prices are over $3.00 per gallon in most places. The cost of driving to a respectable fly shop is high for the majority of anglers. I know the closest decent shop to me is about an hour and a half drive each way. A huge number of anglers have turned to the internet because they get better deals, more choices, and shipping is usually far less than driving to your nearest shop.

Fly anglers have been held hostage by the high prices of quality equipment for a long time. You have had no choice in the past but to pay the high premium if you wanted a decent rod or reel. $700 for a carbon fiber fly rod! That's nuts. $700 for single action aluminum fly reel! That's nuts. You don't see those prices in the spinning and conventional fishing market.

When you buy a Colton product you are paying what a retailer would pay (Wholesale). We have all been trained to think that if we pay $200 for a fly rod then it will perform like a $200 fly rod. Right? This is not the case with Colton products. When you pay $200 for a Colton product you are getting a product that you would have paid over $350 for through a retailer! You just saved $150.

One problem with this concept right? Where can you try a Colton fly rod? Where can you look at a Colton fly reel? We are confident that you will be more than satisfied with our products. So, if you are interested in one of our products then buy it. We will ship it to you at our expense. If for any reason you do not like the product you can return it for a full refund.

.

Here is a quote from Albright

The fly industry is changing dramatically. There are more brands and products than ever before and unfortunately, fewer dedicated fly shops to represent them. Starting in 2008, Albright Direct began selling Albright product direct to anglers via this website. The idea is simple. Get Albright tackle into the hands of anglers and let them decide. We're happy to report that it's working. More anglers now have access to our great fly gear (rods, reels, waders, etc.) at reduced prices. With our no hassle return program, you can literally try out our rods in your own back yard. Not satisfied? Not a problem, just ship it back for a full refund

Is casting a rod before you buy it worth the extra money you pay ? Or buy it direct and take a chance that you won't like it .But if you don't you could just send it back and get a refund. It has been hard on fly shops already trying to compete with big companies like Cabelas and now this direct buy concept has taken them out of the picture even more .

 

[gfen]

Truthfully, casting a rod on grass only seems to tell half the story, and you can't be sure until you've tried it on the water, first, anyways.

I still lament the loss of fly shops in the same way that I lament the loss of other small independent stores that cater to other niches. The most important thing about the places isn't neccessarily the ability to handle the item you're going to buy (especially in teh case of buying hackle), but the fact that you could go in and...Handle anything, and in turn be exposed to new things you never thought of before.

Times are changing, and not for the better. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if some product lines will always be able to support the boutique shops, and if such is the case, I'm not sure we'll ever see the death of the small fly shop. They might get a little rarer, but they'll always exist because there will always be people who aspire to run them, and people like me will always enjoy the ability to stop in and jaw with them.

In a way, I think fly shops are like tobbaconists, specifically one that caters to pipe smokers. Pipes are like vintage bamboo rods, each one is entirely unique to itself dependant on grain, style, colour, and the like. I would never buy a pipe from the Internet (actually, I'd buy a Mark Tinsky from the Interwebs without a thought). A pipe needs to be selected to fit your style, to appeal visually, to feel good in the hand. You need to make sure that the wood is in top shape, the grain and finsih, and that its drilled true. You can buy any old smoking vessel from the Internet, but you'll never get a great pipe that way except by luck.

And that's why even now, tobacconists continue to exist. And, because there's a select group of people who apsire to own a niche shop like that. This is the reason that fly shops will continue to exist, perhaps less of them, but you'll always be able to drive to a store, sit down and talk to the workers.

 

[ryguyfi]

In my industry, there is a saying... "cost is only an issue in the absence of value". If I value something then I will be willing to spend some extra $ for it. If it is equal in value, then price will be most important. I value fly shops more in the importance of information they give me, so I will be willing to spend more money on a product there, than something elsewhere that is equivelant for less money. I always spend a few bucks when I go to the Neshannock Fly Shop. They take care of the stream, he gives me updates reports, and they are always full of information. The value there is higher, so I will spend more money.

I think we as flyfisherman need to understand this value to continue our sport as it has in the past. Yes we have evolved, but if we lose our small shops then we will lose the heart and soul of the sport. Without fly shops, mentors and teachers our sport will dwindle in expertise and experience. That is the key to the continuation of the sport. That's why I'm on this board. So I can learn and also teach more about my obsession which is fly fishing. I enjoy both aspects and that's what will keep this sport alive. I have no problems with technology and streamlining products and information, but total change is bad... we need a good mix of the old and the new.


Ryan

 

[troutslammer]

my thought is , if you are out fishing saturday afternoon and need something in an emergency , albright will ship it to ya a week later ! if u break a rod , they proabably will repair it and send it back a week later , there are only so many weeks of really great fishing !!!!!!

 

[greenghost]

Well put ryguyfi and I do agree.

But I do see darkening clouds on the horizon for the boutique fly shops. The initial and core attraction of the small flyshop has always been what they sell. Obviously that is easily replaced by online discount sites. And all the other value-added services you had mentioned have been an offshoot of that basic selling premise... suppling the products fly fishermen need.

However, those valued services are now being replaced too... by you and me and this board and all similar websites, as well as other sites such as the USGS real-time water flow data.

Like the small neighborhood hardware store that not only offered nuts, bolts and plumbing supplies, they'd also supply the knowledge of how to fix that leaky faucet, or hang shelves on wallboard... they are now nearly extinct.

Realistically, I don't see the shops going away completely. The shops located on or near popular waters -- the "riverkeepers" -- will hopefully manage to thrive. But the days of the flyshop being the core of distributorship for fly fishing industry are fading fast, if they haven't gone already.

 

[troutbert]

Does Albright actually manufacture: "rods, reels, waders, etc.?"

If they do, that's great and they really are selling "direct."

If not, they are re-sellers, too.

Is a $200 rod from Colton better than a $200 rod from my local fly shop? Could be. But maybe not.

 

[Fredrick]

troutbert wrote:
Does Albright actually manufacture: "rods, reels, waders, etc.?"

If they do, that's great and they really are selling "direct."

If not, they are re-sellers, too.

Is a $200 rod from Colton better than a $200 rod from my local fly shop? Could be. But maybe not.

If a train leaves Boston heading west. At the same time, a second train heads east on the same track. If both trains are travelling towards each other at the same speed............ :lol:

 

[afishinado]

troutbert wrote:
Does Albright actually manufacture: "rods, reels, waders, etc.?"

If they do, that's great and they really are selling "direct."

If not, they are re-sellers, too.

Is a $200 rod from Colton better than a $200 rod from my local fly shop? Could be. But maybe not.

Agreed. Anyone can contract a manufacturer overseas to make a brand FF equipment say "The Carpster Special" by Fredrick Manufacturing. Well when you buy one from Fredrick Manufacturing "direct", you're really buying it from just a retailer selling a private label brand.

Is it better than other brands out there for the price? Who knows. But another factor is volume / cost. There are a limited number of manufacturers that produce rods. If Fredrick Mfg puts in an order for 50 rods and Redington orders 5,000 rods, which cost per unit for the run would be less? Also, given the size of the customer and their standards for manufacturing, which run would likely have better quality control? What about design? How about the use top quality components?

One thing that is almost universal in business that consumer satisfaction is the real bottom line to making a business succeed or fail in the long run, and companies like Sage, Orvis, Winston, Scott, etc. have a lot invested. These companies and many others are in it for the long haul and would be more likely to put out a decent product and stand by their products.

Like anything else, give it a try. If you like it, it's a bargain, if you don't, you can always use it as a tomato stick.

Fred, stop watching all the infomercials on late-night television and ordering up junk “direct for from the manufacturer….”

Billy Mays is dead………give it up Dude!
:lol:

 

[ezpickins]

greenghost wrote:

...Like the small neighborhood hardware store that not only offered nuts, bolts and plumbing supplies, they'd also supply the knowledge of how to fix that leaky faucet, or hang shelves on wallboard... they are now nearly extinct.

Realistically, I don't see the shops going away completely. The shops located on or near popular waters -- the "riverkeepers" -- will hopefully manage to thrive. But the days of the flyshop being the core of distributorship for fly fishing industry are fading fast, if they haven't gone already.

I used to have two great fly shops within about 5-minutes of my house, both are gone. I miss them greatly.

I agree with what greenghost says above. I believe these shops have a great value - I really wonder how the sport will do in the new age, without the shops. It is like comparing the local hardware store to Home Depot. If I need to actually ask a question I go to the local hardware store - because they know what they are talking about. I can't say the same for my local Home Depot.

I know that I owe my early fly-fishing success to the local fly-shop. I remember early in my FF'ing life, telling the fly-shop owner that I was going to Spring Creek. He said "Don't go without tying some of these" and he showed me a sulfur emerger pattern. Well he was right - I had my first success fishing over a hatch.

I know that information like this is out there "in the cloud" now - but it is not quite the same (no offense to all you on the board). How many fond memories do you have of an internet search?

So, considering price, I will try to use the remaining local shop for purchases. Because in reality, if I spend $89 or $99 for that Battenkill reel what difference does it really make if you spread it over the life of the reel? I'm trying to "vote" with my spending. I know that this may not be an option for everybody though - and money can be tight, so I'm not passing a value judgment on anybody else for their decisions.

So even though I hate to see it, greenghost is probably correct when he points out that the destination shops, on famous rivers, will survive, but the others will not. I do believe this is a detriment to the sport - but I also see that resistance is most likely futile.

 

[gentleshepherd]

I can chime in a bit. My wife and I owned a Christian Bookstore that was about 3000 square feet not really that small. Direct sales via the internet hurt our business quite dramatically. Why pay $17 for a book through us when you could buy it online for $10.00

It was a sad day when we closed our store. I still contact a local Christian Bookstore that is 40 miles from me before I will puchase online. The small stores do offer that value that we sometimes need.

Don't get me wrong I do purchase online - but I prefer to support my local businesses first.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Frederick,

I suppose it all comes down to how and why you assign value to your purchases?

Speaking for myself, though I'm fairly certain I speak for others when I say this, money has no significant place in how I assign value.

In all matters and not just those related to fly fishing I place the greatest value in the friendships I have made, not just with the people I've dealt with but also with those people that they have introduced to me. Many of whom have gone on to become lifelong friends.

Colton and Albright probably make fine products, I have no reason to believe otherwise. However, I sincerely doubt that the owner of Colton would invite me to his daughter's wedding? I guarantee the owner of Albright wouldn't invite me to his son's Christening, or volunteer to watch my dog for two weeks if I had to leave town suddenly because of a work assignment?

That's where the real value lies in the things I've purchased. With that being said I'm sure you can see that it'll never be about the money to me?

Regards,
Tim Murphy

 

[troutslammer]

i am not opposed to buying a deal online , but i also spend more money locally. we all hope to buy a 89.00 rod that feels and looks like a 600 rod !!!!!

ps. i am too considering a albright 3/4 wt rod with the wood reel seat and aluminum reel !

 

[FishOn247]

Every purchase you make online puts another nail in the coffin of the local shops... hardware, fishing, speciality anything.

Don't forget who showed you that special trick to get a job done or who set up your reel with new line or who gave you that special pattern for a creek you were going to.

Most of the big brands in FF are price controlled... so buy from the local store at the same price as the internet.

 

[troutslammer]

its not a bad idea if you are contemplating a cetain wt and lenght rod to buy a cheaper one online to see if you like it then go ahead and buy a good one , hate to spend 600 on a sage or orvis and then say well this 7'9" 4 wt isn't for me , i wish i wouldn't have spent 600 $ on it !

 

[TimMurphy]

troutslammer wrote:
its not a bad idea if you are contemplating a cetain wt and lenght rod to buy a cheaper one online to see if you like it then go ahead and buy a good one , hate to spend 600 on a sage or orvis and then say well this 7'9" 4 wt isn't for me , i wish i wouldn't have spent 600 $ on it !

Dear troutslammer,

I don't know where you live and therefore don't know your proximity to a fly shop so I'll temper my remarks a bit.

Let me just begin with the first bylaw of sales, and that is that, "The cheapest way in is never the cheapest way out."

What I mean by that is that your bargain deal probably needs to be a steal to the next guy, otherwise whatever you put into it is lost. If you bought the "internet's" best $ 40.00 4 weight that cast likes a $ 600.00 rod it's still only worth $ 10.00 to the next guy.

That's science at work, don't ever question it! ;-)

If you have the chance to go to a fly shop and test their wares then by all means go. You don't need to buy big from them to make a friend. You just need to visit, who knows what you will discover?

Like the conscience of the country that makes most of our flyfishing products said almost 1000 years ago, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

The best friends I have in this business were made because they either paid time and attention to me as a fly fishing goof or they sold me worms when I needed them. I came back to all of them.

It don't matter to me what anyone does. I just want it on record that I made a lot of friends and had a Hell of a time along the way.

I wouldn't trade any of that for all the tea in China bragh!

Regards,
Tim Murphy

 

[troutslammer]

i agree tim ,. all i said was i would rather buy a 89.00 rod to see if i like the action , wt and lenght before i spend major bucks on a good name brand one , casting a good rod in the grass is not the same as fishing and catching a fish on the rod etc , might take a few outings to decide , i buy 95 % of my stuff no matter what it is , off local business !!!

 

[flyfox]

Buying off local outlets is always a good thing and in these times they need everyones support. You can get first hand advice from experts, and yes you do pay a small premium for that compared to buying online. Personally I always prefer walking in to a shop, browsing through their stock and talking to someone. However times are moving on and I hate to admit it, but I have seen things in shops that I couldnt afford at the time and ended up buying online at a discount several months later. Its sad I know, but I guess theres no escaping the web. If I know what I want and am not in a rush I might buy online. If I am in a hurry or out and about, heading to the local store is my preferance. Nothing beats a good browse and chat with the guys in the store

 

[ConMan]

For me I don't ever want to see the day when my local fly shop is no longer. I buy on-line, yes. Some examples of how I try to use the best of both worlds:

I don't tie flies and I have some specific fly buying sites that I use (and I've gone through quite a few bad ones with cheap flies) because it is very easy to spend a boat load of cash when buying $2.00 flies. That said, I heavily rely on my local fly shop to give me advice on flies and rigs for new water.

I'm going to Michigan on Saturday to fish Steel where I've not fished before. I stopped in to Chicago Flyfishing Outfitters to talk to the crew there, who I all know by name. They gave me some great advice, and pointed me in the right direction. They offered me some information on appropriate USGS flow rates for various rivers. Showed me some things on maps. So I picked up the Flyfishers Guide to Michigan, the Gazeteer for MI, and about 40 flies that were recommended. I did the same when I was inquiring about WI spring creeks in the Driftless Area, and WI Steelhead.

What I effectively did here is continue to build the relationship that I share with the gentlemen in the shop, which I enjoy. I can put no value on that. I obtained information that was valuable to me, and I supported them in their endeavor to earn a living while providing me a place to visit, browse, chat fishing and learn.

A few weeks ago I started seriously considering a high end purchase. I went to the fly shop with the intention of checking it out to prepare me for my on-line purchase so I could save the 13% outrageous Chicago sales tax. At the end of the day Andy understood what I was thinking, and I told him of the concern I had - but I made the purchase at that store. It's my fly shop, in some ways, and I am dedicated to supporting it in some form or fashion.

I just picked up a new fly rod - a new 9 ft 5 wt. I worked with the fly shop to get my 9 ft. 4 wt. - same model but a 4 wt - and I purchased it there. But the 5 wt. is on-line right now at tremendous pricing. In this instance, I picked up the 5 wt. on line. I don't feel bad about it. Just the converse, I feel great about saving some nice coin. But I also know that I would not have ever had that original 9ft. 4 wt. and been satisfied enough to know that the 5 wt. was for me without the fly shops initial guidance on the purchase.

Just like a fine cigar shop, a great fly shop is more to me than a place to purchase product. I know they are hurting because I talk with them and they tell me that on-line sales and outlets are hurting them. I just hope we all do enough to keep our friends in business and that those friends still have value to us that is not simply weighed by the size of what's left in my bank account.

Cheers,
Mike.

 

[wgmiller]

Direct and internet sales are affecting the local fly shops in the same way many businesses are being affected. In some cases, local stores have added online sales as another facet of their "storefront" and supplemented sales that way. There is a natural progression with things and the internet has changed many aspects of our lives. Quite honestly, I see the merit in local fly shops, but do a large portion if not most of my purchasing in "big box" stores and online.

 

[troutslammer]

my local fly shop guy left for florida the end of november , didn't know it but i made mention of trying out a albright rod to my wife , she bought me one for christmas , a-5 7'6" and all i can say is wow ! holy moly , u gota see and feel one of these to believe it , when albright says get the rod to the fisherman and let them decide they are not kidding , cam in a nice bag inside a corduroy tube , the ceo of the company emailed my wife and told he they didn't get the rod out when then told her it would be shipped , she ordered it monday , it arrived today , the email stated he is shipping me a free promotional reel for the inconvience , wow inconvience , it arrived 2 days later and she even told the guy when she ordered it that if it didn't come by christmas it was no big deal cause i have been steelheading in erie , HATS OFF TO ALBRIGHT

ps: tim murphy i never did like to go to weddings , i'd rather fish !