Building a Leader

[ryanpgh]

I've decided to stop nickle and diming away with the store bought tapered leaders and would like to make my own. I have a few questions for anyone who make like to assist:

1) What is your preferred brand of line? (seems like Maxima is popular)

2) How precise do you need to be with these leader formulas? For example a dry fly leader formula i found calls for different 22" and 18" segments. Obviously line will be lost when tying your blood knots. Is it safe to say you can give or take a few inches per segment or are these things very precise?

3) Any particular formulas you'd like to share with me? (I wasn't sure if these were secret Chili recipes or not so I apologize if that's a stupid question haha).

 

[SteveG]

1. Maxima Chameleon for the butt sections, Orvis Super Strong for the mid sections, and Trouthunter for the tippet sections.

2. Not very. I usually leave an extra inch or so here and there for when I add and cut away sections.

3. http://highcountryflies.com/fly-fishing-leaders-and-formulas/ I've tried a few of these and they've done well.

I think the most misleading (no pun intended) thing about leader design is the idea that a "light" leader somehow equates to a more delicate presentation (same as fly rod wt ratings too fwiw). The purpose of a tapered leader is to transmit energy from the fly line down the leader to the fly. When you have too small of a diameter or length of your butt sections, you lose that energy right away, resulting in poor turnover or an all out collapse.

But, if you have a heavy long (adhering to the 60/20/20 rule) butt section, you transfer more energy down the leader to the fly, which results in better turnover on long leaders, and the ability to cast in the wind.

This link https://www.yellowstoneangler.com/staff-articles/terminal-tactics-by-george-anderson has a lot of good info.

Don't be afraid to tweak designs to suit your own conditions, casting, etc.

 

[hendeylathe]

Cabin fever has officially set in.

 

[krayfish2]

Post #2, paragraph #4....agree with this 1000%. If ou are a food caster with a properly built leader, you could delicately drop a trico on a fish with a 7wt. Landing a 10" trout on 6x / 7wt wouldn't be much fun though.

 

[TYoung]

You should try this leader formula. It was designed by George Harvey late in his life.


Harvey Leader Formula

 

[ryanpgh]

As an PSU alum, yet fairly new fly fisher, i'm def going to give that George Harvey formula a shot. I wish there was some youTube video of this "S" cast. It makes sense as far as the drag goes, I just can't understand the physics of how it actually lays down like that. Regardless, I try not to get too technical when i'm out there and just enjoy what happens. I appreciate all the feedback. I'll try the maxima chameleon in my butt sections and the maxima ultra green in my lighter sections. Seems like others seem to like this mix based on things i've read.

 

[afishinado]

To add info (or further complicate things :roll here is a link to leadercalc, which is an XL ss containing multiple leader formulas to be used in specific situations. There is some info on leaders on the page and a button to download the ss:

leadercalc

 

[AkDan76]

Ryan,

Its pretty simple...the line follows whatever the rod tip does.

Shake/wiggle the rod tip side as you go forward to the stop, side and you'll get your S cast.

The pig is learning to control it. That's where the artists shine...of which I am not! haha.

A curve case is also kind of an S cast...

Same principle, wherever the rod tip goes, the line will follow.

Twist the wrist you'll get less curves in the line for a smaller S cast.

 

[Acristickid]

They sell these at many shops- it will last awhile.

leader kit

 

[krayfish2]

Dan wrote:

The pig is learning to control

When the pigs learn to control it, they will then teach the machines. Life as we know it will be over! LMAO

 

[Aducker]

Leader Formula I use for dry fly's:

(stiff sizes) = Maxima Chameleon
(soft) = Rio tippet.

Dry fly – 11’ – Leader
[Stiff] .017 10”; .015 20”; .013 20”; .012(0X) 20”-
[Soft] (2X) 12”; (3X) 12”; (4X) 18”; (5X) 22”-30”

 

[TimRobinsin]

Steve G - I agree, mostly. Just be careful about diameter and stiffness.

you can have a relatively thick diameter line at your butt section and still not have good energy transfer through your leader. Make sure the stiffness of the material you use in the butt section of your leader matches appropriately to the leader you are trying to build.

I have seen many knotless extruded mono leader that have butt sections that are actually too stiff and then become too soft too quickly down the taper. This can cause a good loop to dissipate half way through the leader.

the key with leader design and building it to match the leader material to the intended use.

For anyone building their leaders this winter I would say Diameter matters but stiffness/hardness is also a very important factor. get to know the differences between the various brands and makes of line you are planning to use. Maxima Chameleon is a very popular butt section material because of its stiffness/hardness.

this is hardly cabin fever, this is science!

 

[dryflyguy]

Only thing I would add is, when measuring out the sections to be tied together, I leave an extra 4 inches to what the length of that particular section is supposed to be. That gives me an extra 2 inches on each side for tying the blood knot. And that gets me pretty close to the prescribed total length

 

[SteveG]

TimRobinsin brings up a good point I figured was a given (which is why I use Chameleon for my butt sections, then Orvis SS for the 0x). I agree on the knotless leaders, some are ok, and some are terrible.

Oddly enough, I found that my soft rods paired better with stiffer heavier butted leaders (.022) than with smaller butted ones (.017), and I think it's because of energy transfer. I don't have a ton of energy that more powerful rods generate (and subsequently lose when going from fly line to a smaller/less stiff butt).

The takeaway, just like everything else in this hobby, is experiment and find what works best for you.

If anyone local wants to give some of the leaders I've been tying up a try, feel free to get a hold of me.

 

[pcray1231]

Note, below I'm talking about dry fly, brookie, streamer and general purpose leaders. My dedicated deep nymphing leaders are quite different.....

1. I like Maxima Chameleon (the brown stuff) for the butt and first half of the taper. I like as supple a material as I can get for the tippet sections, which right now is Rio Suppleflex. Since that's a pretty sharp stiff-->supple transition, I usually put a section of something in between in the middle. Orvis SuperStrong fits the bill well. For streamers I may just use superstrong as tippet and forgo the limp stuff.

2. I always add about 2 inches to each section to account for knots. But if I end up an inch or two off, no, I don't worry about it.

3. I generally use the dry fly, tight brush, and streamer leaders from Joe Humphrey's "Trout Tactics". No, I don't have a link. I just take em right out of the book. I will adjust heavily from there, usually by lengthening or shortening the last 2 sections. Shorten to get better accuracy or a tighter loop to reach up under overhangs and such. Lengthen to address any drag or micro drag issues.

Addendum - regarding the original note, if I know I'll be high stick bottom rolling nymphs the entire time, I use straight mono leaders of pure tippet material. Such a leader may look like, say, 6 feet of 1 or 2x, 2 feet of 3 or 4x (with large tag end left at end for dropper), and 1 foot of 4 or 5x. These leaders don't cast as well. But thinner, constant diameters do sink better and more evenly, helping to eliminate drag and be in better contact with a team of nymphs rolling the bottom. For casting, this is mostly short distance, open loop or "flip" casting anyway.

 

[JeffK]

Here's a vote for the George Harvey formula with Maxima Chameleon for the hard esction and Orvis SS for the soft.

One great help is to use one of those small tippet rings between the hard and soft sections of the leader. Can replace the soft section all season without shortening the hard section that way.

Finally, the traditional advice for adjusting a slack leader was to shoot for a reasonable amount of S curves in the tippet section for a good drift. Too little curvature, lengthen the leader. Too much, shorten it. Formulas are great and work 90% of the time, but sometimes you need that leader adjusted for your style.

 

[pcray1231]

Which is why making your own leaders is beneficial.

If needs were absolutely static, then someone makes a store bought tapered leader for those needs, and you never need to change.

Reality dictates that you start with a base and are adjusting all the time, though. Remove a section to shorten it. Add a section now and then. etc. Knotted hand made leaders are superior because 1. you understand them and 2. can thus adjust as needed.

 

[afishinado]

JeffK wrote:
Here's a vote for the George Harvey formula with Maxima Chameleon for the hard esction and Orvis SS for the soft.

One great help is to use one of those small tippet rings between the hard and soft sections of the leader. Can replace the soft section all season without shortening the hard section that way.

Finally, the traditional advice for adjusting a slack leader was to shoot for a reasonable amount of S curves in the tippet section for a good drift. Too little curvature, lengthen the leader. Too much, shorten it. Formulas are great and work 90% of the time, but sometimes you need that leader adjusted for your style.

George Harvey later revised his leader specifications and called for using the most supple monofilament for all sections of the leader. Stiffer mono causes more drag on the leader and achieving S-curves in the leader is easier with soft mono.

Here is a good article to read:

Hard vs. Soft Mono for Leaders

 

[AkDan76]

thanks for the link Fish.

I don't mind building leaders but would rather buy...and than build off of them. Just easier (I'm lazy).

Heck I'll throw streamers on 6x as fast as I'll throw a nymph on (again lazy).

I do think we over think these things to a point.

Good example is salmon or big trout....I'll run straight mono up here at times running 3' leaders or less (salmon). Than there are times I need a 12' leader tapers nicely to lay out a marabou fly for silvers (back water estuary's) or I'll spook every fish within a mile it seems. Those occasions are thankfully very rare.

When I'm in pa, I take a 5x 9' leader and if needed add on to it, or tweak it to get what I want.

over the years I have boxes of leader material I throw out pretty regularly. Kind of a waste imho. This is why I feel buying and tweaking is a better option for the average person.

 

[PennKev]

ryanpgh wrote:
1) What is your preferred brand of line? (seems like Maxima is popular)

I've honestly tied perfectly good leaders using cheapo Stren and Berkley line from Wal-mart. With the possible exception of the tippet, I think the whole debate over brand and stiffness is overblown, but I tend towards softer materials. They are usually easier to to stretch out and remove the memory from the line.

2) How precise do you need to be with these leader formulas? For example a dry fly leader formula i found calls for different 22" and 18" segments. Obviously line will be lost when tying your blood knots. Is it safe to say you can give or take a few inches per segment or are these things very precise?

This is probably the most important aspect of creating a leader, but still you have wiggle room. An inch or two here or there isn't a big deal.

3) Any particular formulas you'd like to share with me? (I wasn't sure if these were secret Chili recipes or not so I apologize if that's a stupid question haha).

Not exactly an answer to the above, but I will add that if I am using a knotted leader I've made myself I avoid formulas that require fifty different sizes of mono (exaggeration). I get that a knotted leader has knots, but having a bazillion knots in a leader is a PITA.