Brookie stream drying up

[sarce]

Hi all,

A few years ago one of my favorite brook trout streams in SE PA was the Unnamed Trib to Sixpenny Creek in French Creek State Park. It is on the Class A list. My first time fishing it was in April 2009. I caught at least 2 dozen brookies, many in the 6-8" range even in the far headwaters, as well as two browns in the lower end. Went back in May 2010 and had another excellent day.

After that I went to PSU and had much fewer chances to fish it, however I still managed to get there once a year. It never fished that well again, but it was still at least worth the effort. Would usually catch 6-10 brookies and a couple would be decent sized. Fast forward to this past Black Friday. I fished Scott's Run Lake with a friend and with about an hour of daylight left we decided to make a quick run over to that creek so I could show him some good brookie fishing.

I was frankly shocked at what I found. The stream was rarely more than 6" deep and barely flowing. The pools were mostly silted in. There were some 3" brookies darting around but it wasn't even CLOSE to what I remembered. Desperate to find some fishable water we booked it to the lower end but it was the same story. I did catch one 4-5 incher in a foot deep pocket.

I haven't been around the area enough to speculate what the cause of the decline is. It had been dry in that area but judging by all the silt in the pools there was no evidence of any higher flows in a long time. Certainly the fish population was a shadow of what it once was. It seems to have just dried up. Not wiped out but no longer worth fishing. I hope no one calls this spot burning- as far as I'm concerned there is no spot left to burn...

Does anyone here have any recent experience with this stream? Any info on what has led to the downfall of what just a few years ago was a great little brookie stream?

 

[DanL]

Is it possible that the years you fished it in it's heyday, it was a couple years after a very good rain/possible flood year that washed out a lot of silt, and now it's just back to how it was?

Not seeing anything on google maps that looks like new development that might be drawing water from the creek.

Is the source that bigger pond/small lake a couple miles up stream? Still looks like that is holding a good amount of water and not receding from shoreline....

Just throwing out some guesses, but i'm sure a local here might have some real knowledge on the situation...

 

[sarce]

DanL,

Your first paragraph is VERY possible. But if its current state is normal, I am surprised it ended up on the Class A list. The surveys would also have had to been done in similar wet years. And it really hasn't been dry overall in that region until this fall. Lots of snow the past two winters too.

I don't know of a lake connected to this creek- you may be looking at a different trib.

There was a wildfire in the park a couple years ago, but I believe it was to the east of the drainage area for this stream.

Another idea I've had is that a good number of fish run up from Sixpenny during high water years- but the stream has a very steep, nearly impassible section down near the park boundary. And I don't think brookies in streams like that really go anywhere.

 

[Mike]

Flow has been low this late fall in some Berks Co streams. Willow Creek, for instance, is close to drying up along Rt 222 and under Rt 73, or was so prior to this past Thursday's rain.

As for sediment sources, if the soils are the same as in the Hay Creek drainage, it does not take much to get them moving. They are highly subject to erosion. Could it be trails(?) in the headwaters that are eroding.

 

[mjones32]

Is that the creek that flows in by the frisbee golf area and where the beavers built a dam ? I have observed brookies in there, but that was years ago.

 

[pcray1231]

mjones, no. The Frisbee golf is on the S side of Hopewell Lake. So that'd have to be either Pine Creek or French Creek itself, or a small trib therof.

The trib he's talking about would be north of the lake.

FWIW, I have fished this stream, though it's been a while. Probably 2008 or 2009. I caught a few, but remember it being pretty silty and dryish! That was also a fall trip.

I think we may just have a case of spring vs. fall here. High water during late winter and early spring flushes a lot of these streams out, and in the higher water of spring they can look and fish pretty decent. Come late summer/fall when things are low for months at a time, they silt in some, and low water always limits the number of fishable pockets. The fish concentrate in the remaining scarce holding water. So long as the fish survive perhaps all will be well again next spring?

 

[sarce]

pcray- hope you are right. But numbers were down (but still decent) the past few springs as well. I just flat out didn't see many fish, and the ones I did were tiny. I've had similar experiences on other streams where brookies seem to vanish on some days. But the difference is that there was enough water that I could still believe they were there...

I could be making something out of nothing. But I am really curious to hear from others who have fished here.

 

[Swattie87]

I’ve never fished Sixpenny or any of its tribs, but here are my thoughts in general:

I think for the most part little Brookie streams like that are just subject to natural massive fluctuation in populations, by relative standards. In those tiny jump across streams with small surface area it really doesn’t take a ton of fish to register class A biomass. You survey (or fish) it on a couple of relatively good years and it’s a class A. You hit it on an off year and it’s a D. Most years it’s probably somewhere in between. I think this is pretty normal, and I’d say most of the Brookie streams I explore and fish fall into this type of category more than any other. They have the potential to be good, and at times are, but aren’t necessarily always good. Flows/precipitation, floods/drought, habitat changes, Summer temps, harsh Winters, spawning success/year classes, and more all probably factor into these fluctuations to varying degrees on each stream.

That said, suppose in theory you have a real good year class that develops into a good number of 7”+ adults. As long as those fish are around, the stream will seem to fish good…but having that nice population of relatively large fish will somewhat limit the amount of smaller fish, both through predation and just less room for them in the overall carrying capacity of the stream. As those big year class fish age, many of them will die off at about the same time too. When that happens, there’s a natural void of nicer fish for a little while…There’s more carrying capacity in the stream and a new year class grows and develops more rapidly, with a higher survival rate because of it. This process on its own would lend itself to natural fluctuations in biomass even in the case of all other factors being constant (which of course they’re not).

I’ve found a relatively small handful of Brookie streams that appear to be consistently good (the least common denominator on these streams is that they all have consistently primo habitat IMO), and if I want a “sure thing” day of Brookie fishing I go to one of those. But most of the time, I’d just rather explore something new.

Sarce – Your story on the Sixpenny trib reminds me of another stream. You may have even fished it. Listed as a Class A Brookie, but it has Browns in it too. I fished it several times in 2009-2010…it was full of silt (fine sandstone actually) and in a half a dozen outings I maybe caught 3 or 4 small Trout. I kept fishing it because I thought “Hey, it’s a Class A, it has to be good, right?” The flood during the Fall of 2011 cleaned out the streambed of the silt and at least temporarily made some better habitat. In 2012 and 2013 I had several good double digit outings on it, catching a 13” Brown and several 9” range Brookies. I know of a 15” Brown that was caught from it in that time span too. I fished it once in the Fall of 2014 and once in the Winter of 2015 and took a skunk both times. The better habitat was once again filling in with the silt/sand and I suspect it’s on a downward cycle. This stream’s limiting factor is likely habitat. May very well be the case on your Sixpenny trib as well.

 

[Chaz]

2 really big rain events happened since 2009, Hurricanes Irene and Lee. They came through less than 4 weeks apart in August and September of 2011. Over and above that SE PA saw record amounts of rainfall that year, up to 75 inches or nearly twice the amount of rainfall in an average year. A lot of streams suffered as a result.
I probably have time to go over there and check it out, I'll add a post if I do.

 

[MKern]

They was a great brookie stream that I used to fish north of Williamsport and it started to have less and less water. After two years they seemed to be very few fish and even less water.

I attributed it to either the aquifer moving under ground or gas drilling, which had just started.

 

[Mike]

Swattie's third paragraph is precisely the reason why I suspect that so many brookie enthusiasts here tend to speak of over-harvest. They probably mistake this natural phenomenon for harvest,,finding great fishing for larger, older brookies one year and exactly the opposite the following year. The apparent conclusion and overreaction is that special regs are needed, which of course will do nothing for a fish or year class that has reached the end of its relatively short, natural life.

 

[resica]

I believe this stream does go underground,at least for a stretch, if it's the one I'm thinking of.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Mike need to read (issue 7, last bullet) of the strategic plan for management of trout fisheries in Pennsylvania 2016-2017.

 

[salmonoid]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Mike need to read (issue 7, last bullet) of the strategic plan for management of trout fisheries in Pennsylvania 2016-2017.

You mean this?

"Whether there is social support by the primary users and major riparian landowners of the fishery for establishing or changing special regulations."

Mike's point is that special regulations would not make a difference on small infertile headwater freestoners. The flux in brookie populations in these streams is minimally impacted by anglers and there would be no biological impetus for special regulations. The PFBC did cave to social pressures on the change in regulations on Pine Creek, so there is some precedent for the last bullet point, but I think it would be a completely unnecessary special regulation on small headwater streams.

Or maybe I have the wrong bullet point

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

No you got the right one.

My point is not that it would make it better at all. My point is that biological need can and should be considered a moot point sometimes. At the very least, it is counter productive to come to a forum that consists of the "primary users" ( as referenced by his "so many brookie enthusiasts here") and constantly try to change their minds on the subject. The PFBC sees that there is sometimes a need to add special regs when the primary users scream for it, regardless of biological need. If this is so, then calling those out as having "over reaction" is rather trite and in bad form.

Having said that, I do not see a need for special regs in many of PA's headwater streams. Still though I'm not going to roll my eyes when someone suggests a certain watershed should have them.

Even still, we do need more special reg streams and should be looking for reasons to add more, not reasons to not add them.

 

[sarce]

Resica you are correct, it does that up at the far upper end. I usually hike in well below that near the old spring house if you know where that is (the spring there was also barely flowing, in the past I have seen it really pumping).

Swattie- a lot of good points. I always thought this one had decent habitat. But I realize now, when flows drop a lot of the log/stick jam pools disappear as the water drops under the obstructions. Also I don't believe I know which stream you were referring to...unless it's a Central PA stream?

What I need to do is find out how the other streams in the park are faring - is it just this one or are all of them suddenly very marginal streams?

Chaz- if you can make it over there, I would love to hear your findings. I didn't find any water worth fishing until a very steep section down by the park boundary. That is where I've caught browns up to 10" in the past, though still primarily brookies down there.

I hadn't thought of those storms as being a big deal- 2012 was a great year for brookies on other Chester county small streams. But knowing that the northern Chester/ southern Berks geology is way different from the streams I am thinking of, and given what Mike said about the soils, I can see how that could have caused major problems.

I know I have some old photos and videos from my first trip there. If I have time tonight I may post a few.

 

[Mike]

Swattie, your Class A stream may be getting some attention directed at the sand problem in the future. Given the slopes, geology, and soil structure, and near-by infrastructure, the question really is can the problem be effectively addressed?

 

[Swattie87]

Mike - Probably not. Geology is geology in that area.

 

[pcray1231]

usually hike in well below that near the old spring house if you know where that is (the spring there was also barely flowing, in the past I have seen it really pumping).

Not sure if this is a limestone or freestone spring, but suspect the latter. Flow varies in these springs a LOT based on only the last 1-3 weeks of precipitation.

Again, I go back to the seasonal thing. You visited a few times during wet periods in the spring. Spring pumping. Stream full and fished well.

Then you come back during a dry period in the fall. Spring is now a trickle. Stream seems nearly dry and fished poorly.

That's not to say that something didn't physically change regarding the groundwater flow of the area. It may have. But it doesn't have to have had such a physical change. This situation is common quite naturally.

Low water in tiny streams like that can leave brookies exposed to predation. But I don't suspect there's a water temperature issue in such a small, forested stream. I've seen lots of times where such streams go nearly dry, and prior fast pools become small still puddles. You'd be surprised what brookie populations can survive through. But they certainly won't fish well during those times!