Beginner's Vice Recommendation?

[goodfortune]

I’m set to take a beginner’s fly tying class in the next few weeks. The tying materials will be supplied, but I’ll have to supply my own vice. Can anyone recommend a make/model of fly tying vice that would be good for a beginner?

From reading some of the recent posts, it seems that buying a vise as part of a kit, in most cases, is not the best option. Are there any of the kits that are good buys, and if so, which ones?

Any input will be appreciated. Happy New Year everyone!!!

 

[Heritage-Angler]

The only place I would even consider sending a friend to buy a kit is these guys:

http://flyfishersparadise.com/

They're the only place I trust to select materials for me without seeing it myself.

 

[GreenWeenie]

Decide whether you want a clamp or a pedestal vise. There are pros/cons to both. I use a pedestal vise simply because I can take and use it anywhere with no worries about how will I secure it.

The next consideration is rotary or stationary. This is a personal choice but when starting you don't need a rotary vice; however, as you progress you may wish to give rotary tying a shot and a rotary vise can always be made stationary but not reverse.

The most important thing is to get a vice that can securely hold a good range of hook sizes. You don't need to spend $200 but you should expect to spend somewhere around $100 (+/-) for something decent. Renzetti, Dyna King, HMH and Regal all make good vises with entry-level vises starting around $100 or so. You will not go wrong with any of these vises.

If you are looking at other "bargain" brands try out as many as you can. When trying bargain vises I put in a larger hook (#6 or so) and a small hook (#22 or so) and wrap normal 6/0 tying thread around the shank and pull the thread up or down until I either break the thread or bend the hook before the hook slips. If I cannot get the hook to stay secure it’s a junk vise.

The other thing you need to look at is where in the jaws does the hook sit? You should be able to secure a hook firmly by clamping it in the jaws right at the bottom of the hook curve. If you have to shove the hook deep into the jaws such that the jaws need to grab the entire hook curve it is a junk vise.

Lastly, the most vital part of the vise is the jaw locking system. Others may have differing opinions but my experience with bargain vises is the material used in the cam system is not durable enough to last a long time. The constant opening/closing simply wears the metal down and the next thing you know the cam no longer locks because it has been worn down through use. I have seen this more than a few times.

A good vise will last a lifetime and if the vise doesn’t hold your hook securely and properly your flies will never be as good as they could be.

 

[Fishidiot]

Don't let anyone tell you you need to spend two or three hundred dollars for a vise - or even a hundred. There are a fair number of modestly priced vises that will do fine. At a later point, if fly tying really hooks you, you can upgrade. For years I got by with a basic Thompson Model A vise that, I think, cost about $25 back in the 1980s. I'd estimate that vise turned out over 3000 flies for me. Greenweenie makes a good point about mounting method. While I have always preferred clamps, more tyers these days seem to prefer a pedastal. Consider where you intend to tie and whether a clamp is something you'd care to use on good furniture. Most clamps can only accomadate about two-three inches of wood thickness. Griffin makes a range of low priced vises and I have one that has served me very well. I'd also second Heritage's endorsement of FFP - excellent fly shop.

 

[tomgamber]

start with something simple like this...

maybe this...

If you'd like to spend more, fine but until you decide you really like it I wouldn't go much beyond this...

Now if Gramma gave you big chunk of change for Christmas and its burning a hole in your pocket, well then just buy this.

 

[GreenWeenie]

Fishidiot does make a valid point in that there are inexpensive vises out there that are good. I would only suggest checking them out in person, as there are good $40 vises and really bad waste of money $40 vises and you can't tell unless you look at them.

The two areas of concern are the jaw locking mechanism and the machining of the jaws.

Cheaply made vises generally use inferior materials in the jaw locking mechanism. Assuming a cam system, what can happen is if you accidently apply too much pressure while locking the cam/jaws you can easily flatten or sheer off the cam rocker because the metal is too soft or too brittle. I've seen this happen to several people, especially when using kit vises. this won't happen on a well made vise.

Cheaply made vises can also have poorly machined jaws that don't close parallel together. Make sure the jaws can securely hold the hook and the hook shouldn't have to sit inside the jaws any further than the diameter of the hook wire. If you need to push the hook into the jaws further than this this it means the jaws aren't properly machined and don't pinch together right at the tips which is where you need them to pinch. This isn't so critical on larger hooks but once you get down to tying flies #16 or smaller the jaws will get in the way because you have to push the hook too far into the jaws to adequately secure it.

 

[MKern]

HA is right -- I've seen the vises that come with fly fisher's paradise's kits and they are decent.
$15 - $25 should give you a decent vise.

 

[littlelehigh]

I just bought a Griffin Odyssey at Cabela's for $79.99 so far so good it does not have the Cam jaws but does have the rotary function which I find a big help to make sure when wrapping I am completely covering the hook on the underside. I highly recommend this vice for a beginner

 

[Crotalus]

I dont recommend any kits. you get a bunch of stuff you wont use or will upgrade soon.

For starters buy a good pair of scissors and a ceramic bobbin. learn to half hitch/whip finish by hand. As you learn to tie more flies you can add additional tools - hackle pliers, dubbing twisters, hair stackers etc...

Next is the vise and that is the tough part. The best advice i can give there is to look at your own personal budget, then go to a good local shop like Fly Fishers Paradise and play with each vise in your price range and pick the one you are most comfortable with. Rotary/non-rotary is a personal choice that you need to make, it doesnt matter if it is a $15 AA knock-off or a $600 Renzetti, if you arent comfortable tying with it then it isnt a good vise for you.

Same goes for materials, only buy the materials for the specific flies you are going to tie. As you learn more patterns add more materials to cover those patterns.