Adding Insult to Injury

[JeffP]

Here is a photo of a side canal of Hammer Creek. It's at the Mill and it looks like more that 1/2 of the water flow right now from Hammer runs through this pond.Note this water has already gone through the crap-hole they call Speedwell. How in the world is that allowed? Next bike ride I will take my stream thermometer and get a reading. I guess it was grandfathered in. Upper Middle has a canal diverted from it that feeds a series of ponds.

 

[Fish Sticks]

The Hammer has many things wrong with it. Id like to eventually clean up the upper enough to take a look down there to see if any cool native species /species of greatest conservation need and see what can be done for them. I would imagine slimmy sculpins down there too potentially if springs come in but I have no idea what its like yet. Still working above the crap hole lol. Either way the water quality/Bay/TMDL focused folks should be all over it down there as well from that stand point. Its rough Ive driven by some areas where I’ve just been like…whoa

 

[Mike]

There are probably a number of Pa streams that still partially flow through mill races, most likely more than the few of which I am aware in SE Pa.

 

[troutbert]

A secondary channel is not really a problem. Natural streams often have 2 or more channels.

The problem, as described, is that the channel is flowing through a ponded area, which is likely to raise the water temperature. So, the pond could be drained.

 

[Mike]

Simply put, there isn’t much incentive to drain a mill pond that doesn’t block fish migration and discharges to an already warm stream. One might argue that cooler water temps would be better for the section’s stocked trout, but the stocking schedule on the stream has already been adjusted to take Speedwell’s warm discharge into account, thus by default any mill pond discharge as well.

I have seen cases where mill races take a substantial amount of water from the stream and clearly affect the habitat that this water now by-passes. That would in my view be a greater incentive to “adjust/reduce” mill race flow, but that would not be likely to happen either.

 

[McSneek]

Upper Hammer was full of wild fish from April of 2020 when I went there as the pandemic unfolded until last fall. This year they weren’t there. Don’t know what happened short of a lot of good holes filled with silt over that period but I would be much more concerned about things above Speedwell lake than below at this point.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I have walked upper hammer creek stem to stern and seen almost all the 2nd and third order and down and many of the first order and down streams. I’ve gotten assessments from multiple restoration specialists, DEP, and had PhD’s who have worked with brook trout weigh in as well as reviewed or seen a couple electro surveys and I keep my eye on the in stream monitor.

In the Upper hammer the threat is the same in a lot of respects for the invasive brown trout and native brook trout but also very different in a few very important ways. The three biggest PHYSICAL issues are sediment, nutrients, but very underestimated is the effect of tusnamis coming out of schaefferstown town. We know these flood events, especially winter/spring, increase fish mortality. There are likley trout getting stranded outside the channel when waters recede above the game lands in pasture/fields. Habitat could be better but thats one of the things thats different between brown trout and brook trout and the different threats they face without getting to to involved. We need to do wetland creation up there to take the bite out of these high water events decrease sediments and nutrients. Its a ton of legacy sediment above the game lands and the hydrologic function of the massive springs could be a lot better even. There are also native slimy sculpins which certainly have a conservation value. There are endangered bog turtles. Despite its many limiting factors it has a very nice native fish assemblage with a unique life history strategy for brook trout. As far as when you fished it I’m not sure if it was same time of the year but I notice movement of the fish kn a yearly basis with predictable disturbances /patterns in the watershed. We are supposed to shock soon again potentially so we will see waiting on some permitting i think on UPitt side.

But there are biotic factors as well that greatly impair hammer(i had bolded physical before to highlight the difference). Private and state stocking is rampid and there are many invasive species like brown trout black bass species. Any time you damn up a brook trout stream your gonna get a warm cesspool that fills up with non native predators that can run upstream.

Also the brook trout themselves have likely genetic impairments from being above a barrier from a long time. I will get my hands on genotyping data from the hammer here sooner or later from FWS to see if hatchery introgression or inbreeding deptession present. Might also be able to work backwards with the samples and get some population demographic info as well. Possible genetic rescue could help brook trout stave off their onvasive competitors or even just increase fitness fertility and size one year after genetic resuce, tbat happened with first trial in NC.

We will get more data, more educated opinions involved and hopefully see if we can do something about the rampant stocking issues over one of the small amount of spring creek life histories of native brook trout left in PA.

 

[JeffP]

Upper Hammer was full of wild fish from April of 2020 when I went there as the pandemic unfolded until last fall. This year they weren’t there. Don’t know what happened short of a lot of good holes filled with silt over that period but I would be much more concerned about things above Speedwell lake than below at this point.

I have walked upper hammer creek stem to stern and seen almost all the 2nd and third order and down and many of the first order and down streams. I’ve gotten assessments from multiple restoration specialists, DEP, and had PhD’s who have worked with brook trout weigh in as well as reviewed or seen a couple electro surveys and I keep my eye on the in stream monitor.

In the Upper hammer the threat is the same in a lot of respects for the invasive brown trout and native brook trout but also very different in a few very important ways. The three biggest PHYSICAL issues are sediment, nutrients, but very underestimated is the effect of tusnamis coming out of schaefferstown town. We know these flood events, especially winter/spring, increase fish mortality. There are likley trout getting stranded outside the channel when waters recede above the game lands in pasture/fields. Habitat could be better but thats one of the things thats different between brown trout and brook trout and the different threats they face without getting to to involved. We need to do wetland creation up there to take the bite out of these high water events decrease sediments and nutrients. Its a ton of legacy sediment above the game lands and the hydrologic function of the massive springs could be a lot better even. There are also native slimy sculpins which certainly have a conservation value. There are endangered bog turtles. Despite its many limiting factors it has a very nice native fish assemblage with a unique life history strategy for brook trout. As far as when you fished it I’m not sure if it was same time of the year but I notice movement of the fish kn a yearly basis with predictable disturbances /patterns in the watershed. We are supposed to shock soon again potentially so we will see waiting on some permitting i think on UPitt side.

But there are biotic factors as well that greatly impair hammer(i had bolded physical before to highlight the difference). Private and state stocking is rampid and there are many invasive species like brown trout black bass species. Any time you damn up a brook trout stream your gonna get a warm cesspool that fills up with non native predators that can run upstream.

Also the brook trout themselves have likely genetic impairments from being above a barrier from a long time. I will get my hands on genotyping data from the hammer here sooner or later from FWS to see if hatchery introgression or inbreeding deptession present. Might also be able to work backwards with the samples and get some population demographic info as well. Possible genetic rescue could help brook trout stave off their onvasive competitors or even just increase fitness fertility and size one year after genetic resuce, tbat happened with first trial in NC.

We will get more data, more educated opinions involved and hopefully see if we can do something about the rampant stocking issues over one of the small amount of spring creek life histories of native brook trout left in PA.

Fishsticks, did they do the electroshocking? How does the project look?

What make you think flooding from Shaefferstown is a more recent problem? What has caused more recent sedimentation?

 

[JeffP]

Upper Hammer was full of wild fish from April of 2020 when I went there as the pandemic unfolded until last fall. This year they weren’t there. Don’t know what happened short of a lot of good holes filled with silt over that period but I would be much more concerned about things above Speedwell lake than below at this point.

It just kills me to look at the lower Hammer and the sad shape it's in. I have not had a whole lot of luck on the upper Hammer but I really haven't fished it that much the last number of years. 5-10 years ago there were definitely a lot of browns even down in the county park. Brookies too. That stretch would come alive during a hatch.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Fishsticks, did they do the electroshocking? How does the project look?

What make you think flooding from Shaefferstown is a more recent problem? What has caused more recent sedimentation?

No not yet. I will let everyone involved, including you most definitely, know when we do it. Dr. Shirey had to apply for a bunch of stuff to do it.

I think the floods coming out of schaefferstown have been that way for a while unfortunately. The magnitude to which it floods makes the upper hammer look like a moving speedwell on some of these farms. When you say more recent sedimentation is there a time period you have in mind or a reach where your seeing it more?

Yea i agree its ashame about lower hammer, i wonder whats under all those agricultural soils and legacy sediment in there? Like are their perched springs just warming in the sun that could be returned to gravel basal layer who knows. 5million dollar question(probably literally) is how many more times are these jokers going to dredge speedwell before bust investing that money upstream. They did a miny dredge last time, all they could afford. How much more money they going to waste on that lake?

 

[Sylvaneous]

There are probably a number of Pa streams that still partially flow through mill races, most likely more than the few of which I am aware in SE Pa.

There was/is some atrocity like this on the upper Saucon creek in Hellertown. Water was diverted through an ancient mill and 2 enormous warming pools filled with geese feces. Above this, there's a huge spring that turns a small and warm Saucon back into a trout stream. A few hundred yards downstream is the pipe that blasts this Satanic offal back in, tainting it until the big springs around the Silver bridge rejuevenates it again.

 

[troutbert]

No not yet. I will let everyone involved, including you most definitely, know when we do it. Dr. Shirey had to apply for a bunch of stuff to do it.

I think the floods coming out of schaefferstown have been that way for a while unfortunately. The magnitude to which it floods makes the upper hammer look like a moving speedwell on some of these farms. When you say more recent sedimentation is there a time period you have in mind or a reach where your seeing it more?

Yea i agree its ashame about lower hammer, i wonder whats under all those agricultural soils and legacy sediment in there? Like are their perched springs just warming in the sun that could be returned to gravel basal layer who knows. 5million dollar question(probably literally) is how many more times are these jokers going to dredge speedwell before bust investing that money upstream. They did a miny dredge last time, all they could afford. How much more money they going to waste on that lake?

 

[JeffP]

There has actually been a lot of work done on the lower Hammer. It's created some good pools, but I've seen little evidence of it helping the fish life. Unfortunately being behind Mill Dams and Speedwell the water is still awful. From what I can see, the lower Hammer has very few feeders or limestone influence unlike Middle Creek. How great would it be to see some of these streams before they were dammed and mistreated?

 

[JeffP]

No not yet. I will let everyone involved, including you most definitely, know when we do it. Dr. Shirey had to apply for a bunch of stuff to do it.

I think the floods coming out of schaefferstown have been that way for a while unfortunately. The magnitude to which it floods makes the upper hammer look like a moving speedwell on some of these farms. When you say more recent sedimentation is there a time period you have in mind or a reach where your seeing it more?

Yea i agree its ashame about lower hammer, i wonder whats under all those agricultural soils and legacy sediment in there? Like are their perched springs just warming in the sun that could be returned to gravel basal layer who knows. 5million dollar question(probably literally) is how many more times are these jokers going to dredge speedwell before bust investing that money upstream. They did a miny dredge last time, all they could afford. How much more money they going to waste on that lake?

I kind of thought sedimentation has always(since I have been on this earth) been there. If that is true, what explains a sudden growth in Brown Trout numbers and a sudden plunge as McSneek says and others have noted. Also, what explains high brook trout numbers 25 years ago. What about the previous 25 years? The area was farmed just as much and stocked even more.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Fishsticks, did they do the electroshocking? How does the project look?

What make you think flooding from Shaefferstown is a more recent problem? What has caused more recent sedimentation?

I think the floods coming out of schaefferstown have been that way for a while unfortunately. The magnitude to which it floods makes the upper hammer look like a moving speedwell on some of these farms. When you say more recent sedimentation is there a time period you have in mind or a reach where your seeing it more?

Yea i agree its ashame about lower hammer, i wonder whats under all those agricultural soils and legacy sediment in there? Like are their perched springs just warming in the sun that could be returned to gravel basal layer who knows. 5million dollar question(probably literally) is how many more times are these jokers going to dredge speedwell before bust investing that money upstream. They did a miny dredge last time, all they could afford. How much more money they going to waste on that lake? T

I kind of thought sedimentation has always(since I have been on this earth) been there. If that is true, what explains a sudden growth in Brown Trout numbers and a sudden plunge as McSneek says and others have noted. Also, what explains high brook trout numbers 25 years ago. What about the previous 25 years? The area was farmed just as much and stocked even more.

Yea thats why I was asking what time period because my impression was sediment and flooding have been issues for over 100years. As far as the proportion of brown vs. brook trout or absolute number of both, the problem is I don’t know if there is long term fish survey data that is high quality enough to establish a trend reliably. Most surveys are not triple pass with block netting and are instead catch per unit effort which is less reliable. Also its hard to say for sure just how much stocking was going on vs. now. The proposed rule making for a private stocking authorization is to address this issue. Many farmers have spring ponds they raise fish in or they just go to hatchery and buy and dump. I know of at least 5 landowners who stock and there are probably more, one rod and gun club, and the state as well. The same reason we need the proposed rule making is the same reason its impossible to know if its stocked more now or in the past.

As far as perceived changes in the number of brown and brook trout its hard because the public cannot fish the majority of hammer creek and populations can get fluctuate with large flood events sabotaging a reproducrove class. It doesn’t take a scary amount of rain to blow that stream out.

If PA fish and Boat would stop stocking it they could work towards enough public education to work with landowners to stop stocking as well. Sounds lofty sounds ridiculous but its just what needs to happen. It’s criminal to release a red eared slider can do 3 months in prison in some states. But yet we have garaunteed the public the right to release IUCN top worlds 100 worst invasive species and complain when state doesnt do it. The argument that we have screwed it up so bad that people will get to angry if we try to fix it is inexcusable because we are spending alot of money to fix our cold water ecosystems and save native species.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

It is what it is at this point. Lower Hammer will always be what it is. People insisted on their lake front property....I suggest enjoying the Smallmouth in the warm months, and that pond-great largemouth fishing.

The Upper Hammer could, and should be, a lot more than what it is. And McSneek's reports should not be ignored. Before moving to WV, I fished upper Hammer a lot. I've caught some of my largest brookies to date up there. This year, on a trip back to Lanc, I fished it 3 days, all in ideal conditions. Only a few deep holes really produced fish, and it was brownies 3 to 1. Now, I've had bad days on it before moving down here, so taken by itself, I would think nothing of it. But combined w/ what McSneek is experiencing, as well as a few others I've spoken to, SOMETHING is off...It does suffer from pressure and harvesting in the Spring thanks to the State continuing on insisting it get stocked. I've personally seen stringers full of both native and stocked fish on many, many occasions. But that's been true for a long time. Something else may be happening...

 

[Fish Sticks]

It is what it is at this point. Lower Hammer will always be what it is. People insisted on their lake front property....I suggest enjoying the Smallmouth in the warm months, and that pond-great largemouth fishing.

The Upper Hammer could, and should be, a lot more than what it is. And McSneek's reports should not be ignored. Before moving to WV, I fished upper Hammer a lot. I've caught some of my largest brookies to date up there. This year, on a trip back to Lanc, I fished it 3 days, all in ideal conditions. Only a few deep holes really produced fish, and it was brownies 3 to 1. Now, I've had bad days on it before moving down here, so taken by itself, I would think nothing of it. But combined w/ what McSneek is experiencing, as well as a few others I've spoken to, SOMETHING is off...It does suffer from pressure and harvesting in the Spring thanks to the State continuing on insisting it get stocked. I've personally seen stringers full of both native and stocked fish on many, many occasions. But that's been true for a long time. Something else may be happening...

Those are are valid issues I share concern with as well I’m just saying I think there are certain ? Marks that need to be filled in to get that answer and the anglers probably see less than a 5th of the water on the hammer thats public. Multiple angler observations are good indications like you have mention to go about answering these question marks. I obviously share your concerns Because I’ve been volunteering intensively for half a decade on the stream. The top priority in the Hammer is legacy sediment removal from the walmer farm straight through schaefferstown town from a physical stand point. This will decrease blowouts that leave native brook trout and other native species in fields and ditches and increase spring volume as well as reduce sediment.

As far as biotic impairments everyone has heard me talk about invasive brown trout but here is something thats not gonna be on anyones radar most likely.

By restoring the creek and creating better habitat we are actually jeopardizing the brook trout population if nothing is done about the invasive trout species. Kiap TU Pine creek case study, Trego et al 2019, Brock Huntsman et al 2022 are very clear about this and illustrate proof of concept in well designed studies. Everyones mind rightfully goes to sediment and water quality but everyone also forgets browns and rainbows are invasive and their impact can chance over time depending on water temperature, flow regime, prey base, native brook trout conservation genetics, and land use applications.

So what i would say makes the most sense for the upper hammer priority wise is lets get legacy sediment removal done from walmer farm to schaefferstown and try to avoid doing a lot of deep instream habitat structures if possible(i don’t have full control of this effort onviously) based on what we have seen in the literature and see if we can work with state and landowners to not stock.

I am also going to be getting some mote input on potential issues from Dr. Shirey after he/U-Pitt shock.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Also don’t forget we can restore the brook trout in the stream not just the streams potentially. Genetic rescue could be powerful if indicated. You won’t belive these results after one year. There are risks but benefits can be enormous and if you can find a nearby population with similar life history it likely minimizes some of the risk.

Experimental test of genetic rescue in isolated populations of brook trout | Request PDF

Request PDF | Experimental test of genetic rescue in isolated populations of brook trout | Genetic rescue is an increasingly considered conservation measure to address genetic erosion associated with habitat loss and fragmentation. The... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...

www.researchgate.net

I have a request from FWS to get hammer creeks fin clip genotype samples taken last fall to get demographic data on the brook trout will share if FWS will every give them up.

 

[McSneek]

May 13, 2020. Fish like this rising throughout.

October 1, 2021 - been downhill ever since.

 

[Mike]

If inbreeding is going to yield fish like those, I’ll take it. All kidding aside, within a species genetic control of growth rates is usually masked by environmental conditions. Food (quantity and quality) is the most important factor affecting the growth of fish, assuming water temps are suitable. In the case of limestoners groundwater sources at 51-52 deg F extend growing seasons in comparison to freestoners. Additionally, forage biomass is typically greater in limestoners, at least those that have not been substantially degraded by various sources of pollution.

Furthermore, Hammer is a blended system with at least one limestone and multiple freestone ST populations that can freely mix, so it is not as though these populations are genetically isolated.