A question about 3wt lines and hand-tied leaders

greenlander

greenlander

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
807
For those of you who tie your own leaders and also fish 3wt lines -- what pound test or diamater line do you start your butt section with?

I typically start my leaders on 4-5 weight lines with 25lb Maxima Chameleon, but found that to turn over poorly when casting a new 3wt line the other day.

I think I'm going to have to order something, because my next step down is 15lb. I'm guessing I need 20lb?
 
I tie the butt section on my leaders for my 3 wts. with Maxima Chameleon .017 dia which I believe is 20 lb. Works great. Let me know how it works for you.
 
same as above - 0.017 maxima, either green or chameleon
 
Used to. Got old. Furled leaders rule :)
Coughlin
 
I agree with the 0.017" suggestion if this is a dry fly leader. The rule of thuimb is 60% of the line diameter at the end. There is a chart in the book "Drag Free Drift" by Joseph Kissane (a great book by the way) that indicates a 0.019 inch diameter butt for a 3-4 wt line. But there are a lot of other factors that you can tweak to make the leader work the way you want. For example, Harvey used a thinner butt section that would somewhat limit energy transfer and aid in getting a slack cast. So for a dry fly leader, and using a stiff nylon like Maxima, I would go with 0.017" and see how it works. One of the great things about hand tied leaders is that it is easy enough to add butt sections until you have the kind of performance you want.
 
I didn't think Harvey used a thinner butt section to account for the coils. I think he used a Mason hard butt section of normal proportions(I believe it was .017, .015, .013, .011) and then switched to a softer material in the tippet. I also believe the last piece of the leader before the tippet is slightly longer than the previous piece. The combo of the soft material as well as the longer piece would kill the momentum of the stiff butt section. Therefore the leader will still lay out but then start to crumble into the coils as it reached the tippet. Maybe that was Humphries but I assumed they used employed the same methodology. I could get the book but am too lazy. Anyway, that is essentially the leader I use witha few tweaks. I have a short nailknotted and pliobonded piece of .020 on the end of my line. If I need to change a leader I change it at this juncture instead of having to cut my line. I do not care for the built in loops and cut them off. My standard leader is as follows:
.017 15"/.015 15"/.013 15"/.011 15"/2X 12"/ 3X 15"/ 4X 24"
It can be adjusted proportionately to accomodate lighter tippets or longer leaders or both.

As far as the three weight goes I have no idea. I own only one 4wt and seldom fish it. My feeling is with a well constructed leader you can get just as good a presentation with a five weight as a thress. Plus you can cast much better in a breeze with a five weight than a three. As well as nymph or throw streamers.
 
I use .019 orvis hyflote for the butt section of all of my leaders.
However, I use a 9 foot leader on my 3 weight line. And a 12 foot leader on my 5 weight line
 
.017 Maxima green for me too.
 
I used to tie some leaders, but even with great blood knots...... they stink!
You spend thirty bucks on gas (soon to go way up) and hundreds on rods and reels. Hundreds on vices and feathers?
Why wouldn't you spend $3.95 for a perfect tapered leader? Use a tippet ring and the leader will last all year!
There are much better ways to save bucks on fly gear.
 
1wt wrote:
I used to tie some leaders, but even with great blood knots...... they stink!
You spend thirty bucks on gas (soon to go way up) and hundreds on rods and reels. Hundreds on vices and feathers?
Why wouldn't you spend $3.95 for a perfect tapered leader? Use a tippet ring and the leader will last all year!
There are much better ways to save bucks on fly gear.
Click to expand...

I think, and I don't tie my own, that it is cheaper in the long run to buy all of the material and knot your own. Also, you can fine tune your leader for the type of stream, size fly, and even casting stroke you might have.

 
Some people enjoy tying them and making it part of the experience. I enjoy catching fish on flies I tied and my own hand tied leaders. My goal is to build my own rod and catch a fish with the rod, leader, and fly all designed by me.

With that being said there are many applications for a machined knotless tapered leader.
 
1wt wrote:
I used to tie some leaders, but even with great blood knots...... they stink!
You spend thirty bucks on gas (soon to go way up) and hundreds on rods and reels. Hundreds on vices and feathers?
Why wouldn't you spend $3.95 for a perfect tapered leader? Use a tippet ring and the leader will last all year!
There are much better ways to save bucks on fly gear.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with the cost. In fact, I could make the same argument in favor of knotted leaders. You spend all this money on everything else, why not take the time to build a custom leader that works properly. But I don't think that is such a good argument either.
Extruded leaders (the knotted ones are tapered too) have their place, but they are limited in terms of materials and design. There is no such thing as a "perfect" leader, extruded or otherwise because you should adjust the leader to fit your setup and conditions. For example, the original question about matching your leader to your line weight is more difficult to address and would require trying several extruded leaders to get it right.
I don't get the tippet ring thing. A knotted or extruded leader will last all year if you take care of it. A surgeons knot is no more difficult to tie than a cinch knot, and I find it a lot easier to tie a surgeon's knot than thread tippet through a ring.
However, one of the great things about fly fishing in the modern era in my opinion is that we have so many choices and each person can find the leader/tippet material/fly/rod/lucky hat that they enjoy and trust. If it works for you, then it is the right choice for you.
 
The accepted recommendation for leader diameter coming off the fly line is approximately 2/3 the diameter of the tip of the fly line. The individual can vary this somewhat if the leader still turns over acceptably.

Care must be taken to not rely solely on the pound test of the leader material. There can be substantial variation in diameter/lb. test among the varieties of material available.

Dave R.
 
1wt wrote:
I used to tie some leaders, but even with great blood knots...... they stink!
You spend thirty bucks on gas (soon to go way up) and hundreds on rods and reels. Hundreds on vices and feathers?
Why wouldn't you spend $3.95 for a perfect tapered leader? Use a tippet ring and the leader will last all year!
There are much better ways to save bucks on fly gear.
Click to expand...

I'm of a 100% contrasting opinion on this one.

Tapered factory leaders, in my opinion, almost always lack the stiffness to turn over the way I feel they should. They're also stupidly expensive. I can tie 50+ leaders for the price of a pack of factory tapered leaders which will fall way short of my expectations.

Hand tied leaders ... how could they stink? If you're using the right materials and tying them properly, they're almost always better than the extruded ones. Not to mention, you have full control over how the leader behaves. And mind you, this isn't an exact science, there's a pretty hefty amount of room for error before your leader behaves like junk. And they're an absolute piece of cake to tie. Takes no time at all.

I tried furled leaders for a couple seasons and liked them, but ultimately felt they lacked stiffness in the butt section. Their convenience can not be understated, however.

I've been meaning to write an article for some time on the virtues of hand tied leaders. I need to get moving on that already.
 
I like to tie my own leaders because it adds to the flyfishing experience to me. I can custom make a leader to fit any situation and can also make any adjustments on the stream. I like the way they turn over. IMO the knotless leaders are junk.
 
I like them all, but I do adjust any leader according to conditions. Learning to knot your own leaders is a great way of developing a deep understanding of how to adjust leaders. And now, and not because of cost, I tie many of my leaders from spinning line remnants, discarded tippets and leaders, and stuff I find hanging in bushes and trees. This makes me feel that I'm doing a wee little bit for the environment, saving the lives of birds and bats who would otherwise get entangled, and being just a good ole citizen (to make up for all my other sins).

Although I have a micrometer that measures to a tenth of a mil (0.0001), I don't bring it afield with me. As I match up random strands of mono, I don't go by diameters as much as I judge the relative stiffnesses of the sections.

Now, mixing brands of leader (I can't always figure out what brands the salvage mono is) can lead to a failure at the knot - but that's a whole 'nother topic.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Harman's North Fork Cottages


Real Time Data From
the USGS Site

Share this page

Back
Top