A few questions about size 26 BWO I saw today

[PaScoGi]

Today on the Tully it was 55° and drizzle. Water temp was 42°. For hours I saw tiny BWO in the air, landing on my hat brim, coming off water.

Fish appeared to be rising but I think they were taking emergers and their momentum was taking them out of water.

The smallest Barr's Emerger I can tie is a size 22.

My questions are:

1. Is there a simpler BWO nymph or Emerger pattern that is easier to tie in sizes 26, 28, maybe 30? I thought about just winding some olive thread on a size 26 hook but would it work without a thorax, ribbing, or wings?

2. How is it possible to see a size 26 nymph or Emerger being taken? Should I use dry dropper?

3. Is there another nymph/Emerger that works during a small BWO hatch?

4. Is there such thing as BWO spinner fall? Meaning after BWOs leave the water (those that aren't eaten by trout) do they return in the evening to lay eggs?


Thanks for any help. Trying to learn this hatch since it's year round but sporadic & usually on cloudy days right?

Any other general BWO tips, techniques, flies/patterns to tie & use, particularly for winter BWOs on the smallest size

 

[redietz]

1) Use a small soft hackle wet fly. The nymphs + tailing shucks are larger than duns. (I use a size 20 PT soft hackle, no thorax for BWOs this time of the year.)

2) Fish the wet fly downstream. You should have problem detecting strikes. You'll see most of the them, and feel the rest. Try for a dead drift.

3) See #1

4) Yes, there are BWO spinner falls, but in my experience at this time of the year they happen in the early afternoon, not in the evening.

I've had some excellent days fishing the BWO hatch in early January.

 

[hooker-of-men]

Early in the season while staying at Feathered Hook, I've bought the smallest size BWO - smaller than anything I would ever try to tie or, if I'm being honest, than I want to fish - they had in the trays. They were basically olive thread wraps with the tiniest puff of white parachute. Very little to them, but they caught fish.

At that size, though, I would bet you could throw something like a small Griffith's Gnat and catch fish. I will readily admit, though, that I am highly skeptical of religious hatch matching, especially when they're eating tiny, tiny stuff.

 

[PaScoGi]

Redeitz - Thanks for the reply. Quick follow up question - you mention using a size 20 PT, which I know how to tie, however all the hungarian partiridge I use is for size 12 or 14 size hooks - how can I get it to size 20? Is there some other hackle that is that small, would something like the Whiting 100 packs work? Just curious your recipe for size 20 soft hackles, or do you buy them somewhere?

Hooker of men - thanks for the reply, and I agree about hatch matching and your input is kinda what I was thinking anyway. Shoulda tried my Griffiths Gnat, but again I only have them in size 22 thats the smallest I can tie. But I will try that Feathered Hook fly you mentioned.

Biggest problem I had was nothing else was working for the 4 hours I fished - I tried eggs, streamers, midges, perdigons, pretty much my whole box. But the only thing I actively saw them eating were these tiny BWOs, which while it was frustrating it was still pretty cool. Love the challenge though

 

[redietz]

PaScoGi wrote:
Redeitz - Thanks for the reply. Quick follow up question - you mention using a size 20 PT, which I know how to tie, however all the hungarian partiridge I use is for size 12 or 14 size hooks - how can I get it to size 20?

First, I don't usually use partridge on a PT; I use the covert feathers from a mallard wing. You can use partridge, though, but I'd stick with the gray feathers.

Second, although some of the covert feathers may be small enough for a size 20, the stems are too thick to wrap well. I use the method in this video instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31DWumnrPIs

I've tied down to size 24 with hackle feathers that would wrap a size 10 hook nicely.

 

[PaScoGi]

WOW! Thank you so much, such an awesome video cant belieive I never thought of that, or even saw that anywhere! Solves all of my problems!

Good karma for you, that will help me a ton. I have wanted to tie some small, small soft hackles and this trick will help greatly!

Thanks!

 

[Bamboozle]

Fly size as it relates to hooks size is an inexact science.

Before you go crazy deciding what size fly you need based on what you see, do what I do and buy one of these and carry it around in your pocket to measure the length of any mayflies you can capture in MILLIMETERS using the metric side of the scale.

When you get home, compare what you measured to the hooks you have and you MAY just find out the flies you saw were bigger than you think.

FWIW – I fish a lot during various Olive hatches and NEVER needed to fish anything smaller than about a size 22.

Good luck!

 

[PaScoGi]

bamboozle - thanks, yes I caught one in my hand and compared it to the size 22 barrs emerger I tied, and the live bug was way smaller, at least a size 26 maybe even smaller. now, that being said, the hooks I tied my barrs emerger on were from Firehole Outdoors (I only buy barbless hooks so my options are limited) and maybe their size 22 are larger than what other hook manufacturers sell.

Bottom line is the barrs emerger can be difficult to tie in small sizes for beginners like me, particularly the wings. I can get down to size 22, but for smaller stuff I will use the hacks listed above.

But these BWOs were small, smallest I have ever seen.

I like that gauge you linked, will definately be buying it and adding it to my pack. I will also be using it to measure the other end of the scale, large stoneflies. I have people that dont believe how big some of the stoneflies in PA can get on some streams and now I have an easy tool to take a pick with them with after I flip some rocks.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated!

 

[Bamboozle]

PAScoGi:

In regards to the ruler, the version I linked to and reasonable facsimiles are available all over the place. A while back I shortened mine to make it easier to carry, as I don’t expect to encounter any 6” mayflies. ;-)

I cut it down to about 3” with a Dremel cutoff wheel, rounded & polished up the cut end with a grinding wheel, then a polishing wheel on my Dremel tool, and added a hole in that end.

I added a short loop of cord to the hole. Now fits anywhere I want to keep it and if you wanted, you could even hang it from a zinger. However, these days I carry one of these instead.

Regarding tying small flies, there is nothing worse (for me) than wasting a bunch of time tying a fly that doesn't catch fish (for me). That being said, don't fret about wings on tiny (sub 22) flies. Some of my most successful midge fishing is with dry flies consisting of a tail, a thread body and a few winds of hackle.

You can tie a zillion in no time as long as you have small enough hackle. If you can find Whiting 100 packs in the size you want, that is even better because they are easier to work with than tiny neck hackles.

Don’t get hung up on color either, get hung up on presentation. When there are a gazillion real midges on offer, trout can be fussier about drag than they are when there is a big fat dun imitation over their head.

The right leader and tippet size can mean the difference between getting fish or getting frustrated.

Good luck!!

 

[PaScoGi]

Good points, and agree totally.

Thanks.

 

[JerryC]

I, at one time, could tie flies that small. One trick I picked up was to tie them on a TMC 2488. It's a 2X short hook. Theoretically, the shank on a size 20 should be same as the shank on a size 24 standard dry fly hook. All my midge patterns are mostly tied on a size 20. I know they work during the trico hatch. Should work on a BWO hatch. I'm sure I have some size 20 PT nymphs in my midge box. I use starling for them, and other small soft hackle nymphs. There are definitely feathers that can used on a size 20, but they're fragile. At times it can get frustrating tying them because it's not hard to break the hackle. When you get down that small you don't really need soft hackle on them. This one is tied on a size 18 TMC 2488