2010 Susky YOY Study

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Fishidiot

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Sep 9, 2006
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Here's the latest YOY for smallies in the different sections of the Susky:

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/reports/2010bio/susqyoy_08_10.htm

I'm a bit puzzled by the low numbers, esp in the West Branch. I had expected better recruitment. There does appear to be a good spawn in the lower sections below Harrisburg. Also of note, the prevalence of diseased fish was fairly low. Since the current theory is that bass around Harrisburg get the lesions and die off due to low, warm water (a theory I'm skeptical of)....one would think there would be more lesions this year considering water temps and conditions. Hhmmm.....

Overall though, the YOY this year is pretty decent for the Susky. Not bad news at all.
 
Interesting, perhaps the surviving bass are beginning to develop some immunity to the disease, so there are less bass showing up now with the lesions?
 
Ryan,
It's a plausible theory that natural selection/immunity could be a factor in the reduced number of fish with lesions - as well as the somewhat earlier dates of the survey (as the biologists suggest).

To be sure, the connection between columnaris lesions and the decline of the bass popultion in the lower Susky have not been solidly linked (my personal suspicion is that there IS some correlation). Some recent studies have found higher rates of lesions in sections of the river where the bass population hasn't crashed.
 
[color=0000FF]Overall though, the YOY this year is pretty decent for the Susky. Not bad news at all.[/color]

How can you say that? It stinks and it makes me want to only carp fish....... or maybe throw-up!
The best from this site just went to a warm water jam and nobody caught anything. Well a couple dinks!! LOL They had yaks and canoes and are top shelf fly guys.
And let me say something about the handful of guys that "sample" the river with their tiny nets and put on paper what they find. I know they mean well, and it would be a great job if the pay was good, but their reports are far from reality.
Thirty years ago, every one of the WW Jammers would have caught well over a hundred healthy bass and one hundred and fifty big rockbass!
Now the river is polluted with a slime mud bottom. It smells now.
Way too many people now and way too many houses. Worn out sewage plants. Pig farm runoff. Gas drilling. Way too shallow with snot grass algae everywhere.
I'm in a good mood tonight, so I won't mention the one thousand other things that wreck the smallmouth fishing.
It's really hard for me to get excited about the tiny increase on the YOY chart.
 
1WT,

Yes, the lower Susky is in very poor shape with regards to bass fishing. This isn't news. My contention that, overall, the latest YOY wasn't bad news was based on comparison with other recent YOY production in specific sections of the river over the last several years since the bass crash. While I had hoped for better results, particularly in the West Branch, I stand by my claim that, overall, it wasn't a bad YOY for all sections of the river.
As for the PFBC biologists producing reports "far from reality" - I disagree. Their methodology is consistent, peer reviewed, and sound. It isn't perfectly accurate, nor do they claim it to be, but the results they get are the best and most accurate data out there.
Regarding the poor bassin at the JAM.....well I stand guilty of picking the location but that was on the Juniata not the Susky and your claim that, in the past, EVERY jammer would have caught over a HUNDRED bass, (while possible), is highly unlikely.
 
@ Jdaddy that was actually pretty laid back post for 1wt
 
Breathing in slowly. :)

My wife and I fished the Juniata in late June. We both did pretty well. about 20 fish between the both of us in less than 2 hours. Most fish were around 8-12", none over 13".

Pending on how you were spread out, several people in the water may have a bit of a pressured feel to many of the bass. Low clear water, on "trained" smallmouth will make them a little spooky. I wasn't at the Jam, so I don't know. But I would not discount the Juniata River quite yet.
 
@ Jdaddy that was actually pretty laid back post for 1wt
Click to expand...

Agreed. I was mentally comparing prior posts to some of LJ's work.

Plastic bottles.
Selling the country.
 
1WT: I'm one of the guys" with the little nets." So, I'm curious, what was said in the reports that you have read that is from reality. To keep things honest, the only ones written by my "staff" and I have been those pertaining to the stretch from York Haven Dam down to Pequea, Lancaster Co, so personally I am not invested in the composition of the other ones. If you have some criticism that would possibly result in any of us producing better reports, however, I am all ears, but I would also like to know which specific reports or aspects thereof you are objecting to. By the way, the reports on the PFBC web site are meant for the general public's consumption and are not meant to be scientific treatises.
 
[color=0000FF]1WT: I'm one of the guys" with the little nets." So, I'm curious, what was said in the reports that you have read that is from reality. [/color]

Mike,
Calm down.... dude! I saw you guys a couple years ago just below the Rt 30 bridge, west shore, with your electric shocker and small nets (sorry, "little" is a hurtful word, small is better)
You guys netted about 20 YOY bass in a hour and 40% had a white fungus spot on their back. The report said that most of the infected bass will die! Remember? I fly fish that water all the time and I noticed that you guys only waded out a couple feet with your chest waders on.
I said that you guys mean well, and it would be a wonderful job if the pay was good. Hey, I would do that!! I could be your boss, Mike, if you would take a cut in pay so I could have a big raise!!
Really, you guys should be testing the slime on every rock and the stink in the brown water to see what is wrong with the Blessed Holy Water.
Just upstream, city island is closed way too often because of e-Coli!! Everyone swims and poops and urinates and tosses toxic trash in the water and when it gets down to your area it is really too late.
The YOY reports are misleading, to say the least. A report of bass per cubic yard would be much better. But then everyone could see that the smallmouth population is only 5% of what is was thirty years ago. The water you guys test used to be a gravel bottom clean smallmouth paradise. Today, things have changed quite a bit!
Please don't shoot me!!! I'm only C&R fly fisherman!

PS- Please don't shock the carp and chubs! It's what we have left to fish for. They don't seem to mind the polluted water as much!
 
There are many advantages to doing the YOY survey the way that it is being done. Primarily, it is very effective at producing a good index of abundance, we can cover many sites and rivers in a short period of time, and do so in the relatively short period of time that the YOY are vulnerable to the technique. Plus the method is relatively inexpensive for the anglers who foot our bill. Why do we do the work in 6"to three feet of water? Because that is the primary YOY habitat. Finally, there has been no attempt to pull the wool over the anglers eyes; the YOY index is just one index. Read the Area 6 lower Susq R biologist reports carefully from 2000, 2006, and 2007. Don't just look at the graphs. The narrative portions pretty much lay out the bass population situation in the Area 6 portion of the river and even suggest where to fish if you read between the lines. The reports are archived on the PFBC web site and you can get to them from the home page.
 
While we may not agree with all of the policies of the PAFBC, overall they are a first class organization and are doing their best with limited resources. The crash of the SMB population in the middle and lower sections of the river is an environmental tragedy. There is something drastically wrong and it does not appear that a root cause has been determined, let alone a solution. The implications of such a crash are much bigger than the concerns of the angling public, more like a canary in a coal mine. Makes one think what could be next.
 
Nuthin_Fancy wrote:
While we may not agree with all of the policies of the PAFBC, overall they are a first class organization and are doing their best with limited resources. The crash of the SMB population in the middle and lower sections of the river is an environmental tragedy. There is something drastically wrong and it does not appear that a root cause has been determined, let alone a solution. The implications of such a crash are much bigger than the concerns of the angling public, more like a canary in a coal mine. Makes one think what could be next.
Click to expand...





Very well said Nutin. Welcome to the site.
 
1 WT, or is it Wooleybugger, as much as you have irritated me me with your ridiculous posts in the past, I have to agree that conditions in the Susquehanna River are pretty dismal.

I can remember back more than twenty years ago as a kid fishing the River in Saginaw, York County and remember how clear and clean the river bottom was. There is a difference in the water and riverbed I now notice that all of the rocks in the river are turning brown with stains and a coating of sludge covers most of the bottom.

I also remember my grandparents driving me up 322 on the way to Huntingdon all but 25 years ago, and looking over the river near the dauphin narrows. I remember the water was an emerald green color the way the sun hit it, with sunbleached white rocks sticking up out of the water. It now appears as different shades of brown and looks like crap any time of the day.

However the PFBC can only do so much, they are not miracle workers and they are not to blame for all the pollution flowing through it's 440+ mile main branch and massive watershed.
 
[color=0000FF]1 WT, or is it Wooleybugger, as much as you have irritated me me with your ridiculous posts in the past, I have to agree that conditions in the Susquehanna River are pretty dismal.[/color]

So sorry that I irritated you! I was one of the few who complained about the decline of the once world class Susquehanna. Don't hate me, I'm only being truthful with my fishing observations.
Bob Clouser complained even more than I did! He sued the state, stopped writing books, stopped guiding, and closed his fly shop!
But still some folks refuse to believe what is happening. Maybe a good strong rain will wash and cleanse the river? LOL and the bass and rockbass will return?..... if only we had a better size limit for keepers? ...... if only we had a more expensive fishing license? ...... maybe a bass stamp? ...... maybe only barbless hooks? .... maybe hundreds more fish wardens? ...... maybe if we pray more?

"Living is easy with eyes closed
misunderstanding all you see
it's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out
it doesn't matter much to me"
 
Actually, only one of your posts has really irritated me.

Some of your posts do come off as misplaced aggression and/or attacks on people. Calm down.

We'll close our eyes..... as not to see you gut hook any more trout and then release them to continue fishing, hows that sound.

I even stated my disgust for the current state of the Susquehanna River, however I'm not the one trying to belittle others who are just doing their job. You come off as a real jerk, I believe your real persona carries through to us here on the site, through the very words you are typing.

Next troll please.
 
[color=0000FF]We'll close our eyes..... as not to see you gut hook any more trout and then release them to continue fishing, hows that sound.[/color]

LMAO!! you sound like the "troll" to me, dude!
 
Yeah, that's hilarious. Lets start a poll. lol.

You win for making me laugh, best joke of the day.

Or should I just put a link in here pointing out where I got the "gut hook" reference, oh yeah from one of your posts from last year, using your previous alias.
http://www.paflyfish.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7150&forum=4&post_id=73489#forumpost73489
 
My favorite wooleybugger moment was when he went on and on wishing for a massive catastrophe with millions of deaths.
 
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