Proposed DHALO regulations change

[double00]

FYI...

"A change to who can fish in stream sections managed under delayed harvest, artificial lures only rules and when they can keep fish will be discussed when commissioners hold their quarterly meeting in Shippensburg on Wednesday and Thursday.

Now, delayed harvest waters are open only to anglers using flies or artificial lures. They can keep three fish per day from June 15 through Labor Day.

Those rules were initially put in place to provide anglers with stocked trout later into the year, while still allowing fish to be taken before the stresses of warm water killed them anyway.

On the agenda for commissioners this week is a proposal that would allow fish to be taken sooner, from the Saturday before Memorial Day through Labor Day. More significantly, the proposal would allow anglers to fish with bait during that time.

Complete Article:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/outdoors/s_790324.html

 

[brain]

why? is all i can ask.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

If something is not broke don't fix it.

 

[CRB]

http://www.fishandboat.com/images/exec/minutes/2012minu/04sche_fish.pdf

On the agenda for commissioners this week is a proposal that would allow fish to be taken sooner, from the Saturday before Memorial Day through Labor Day. More significantly, the proposal would allow anglers to fish with bait during that time.

"The removal of tackle restrictions during the harvest period will provide for more angling opportunity by broadening the angler base and encouraging increased participation by younger anglers," reads the recommendation by the commission`s bureau of fisheries. "During the designated no harvest period, the artificial lures only tackle restrictions will remain in effect on the waters managed under these regulations."

Another proposal would remove the regulation that prohibits fishing delayed harvest waters – as well as catch and release and catch and release fly fishing only waters – from one hour after sunset to one hour before sunrise

 

[CRB]

why fix something that works. I guess the PAF&BC would like to loose more license sales.
License sales are way down this spring due to the poor winter weather(lack of ice fishing opportunities) so they are back pedaling for ways to get more sales. Steelhead runs up here have been poor, Last year spring rains are all aligning for poor income and lack of funds.
What's going to happen when the streams turn for the worse when the drillers impact them?

 

[Maurice]

brain wrote:
why? is all i can ask.

Reason #1 - The Traditional Anglers (read bait fishermen) have always resented the fact that they are not allowed to fish tackle restricted waters. It is their agenda to remove all tackle restrictions.

Reason #2 - The Traditional Anglers (read Bait Fishermen) have always felt that stocking fish that cannot be harvested [by them]was short changing their payment of license dollars.

They literally want to get in their and harvest those trout and the goal of delayed harvest regs is to delay harvest not to eliminate harvest.

The F&BC also feels that the fish stocked in these areas are under utilized by the C&R fishermen refusing to harvest and allowing them to die due to high summertime temps.

Nevermind their intrinsic value of being caught numerous times.

Many of the special reg areas are open only because of the landowners desire to minimize the use and eliminate the headaches of opening day. This will literally create another opening day.

Oh happy days......

 

[CRB]

I guess they have not heard about the 10,000+ trout that have been released into the Fairview Gravel Pit for opening day. During the extended season there fisherman were limiting out with 3 fish in 15 minutes and that is a fact. This week,a few thousand more will be stocked.

 

[Fishidiot]

I agree with Maurice about the views of traditional anglers. I'll confess some sympathy to traditional anglers but I wouldn't support changing the DHALO (yet). Perhaps, they should try the new changes on a few specific streams before they change wholesale the DHALOs statewide.

 

[JackM]

I don't mind the allowance of bait during the harvest period, but do not think that it should be extended back into May. Now, landowner issues should be scrutinized carefully and perhaps a separate category of DH, namely DHALO/B on streams on public lands might work as a compromise that doesn't foil landowner relations.

 

[Swattie87]

I guess I'm ok with this idea in theory...as others have mentioned above though, if it comes at the sacrifice of landowner relations along specials regs streams then I think the potential harm is too great to move forward with it...I suppose that needs to be looked at on a case by case basis.

I see this as more of an efficient use of the resource, than a catch and keep crowd vs. C&R crowd getting shortchanged with license dollars. Simply put many of the DHALO streams warm beyond the capacity to successfully hold over a decent proportion of the Spring stocked fish in most years. If the fish will perish anyway, they might as well be harvested...and if data shows that the typical DHALO anglers aren't keeping the fish after the harvesting season opens on them, might as well let some guys (bait) fish them who will. Beyond that, most DHALO streams have only modest (at best) populations of wild fish, so it's not like opening them up to bait will destroy a viable wild trout fishery...again in most cases.

The catch and keep crowd thinks all of their license dollars should go to stocking no tackle restriction ATW's. The C&R crowd (which I'm sure most of those on this site fall into) would probably argue their license revenue should be spent on stocking the special regs streams, fingerling stocking programs, or better yet even, just allocating funds for additional wild trout stream surveys. Then you have Bass anglers, Muskie anglers, Steelhead, etc...the PFBC has many different viewpoints to appease...not an easy task. Differing viewpoints is all, and ultimately a middle ground is the appopriate answer, which I think the PFBC does a generally good job of finding, fully understanding that the majority of their revenue is generated from license sales to the catch and keep trout gang.

As far as tackle restrictions go, the bait guys have one good argument in their favor..."FFerman can fish in every stream in the state, while we get shut out of some of the best trout water to FFO regs." If there needs to be a little give there, I'd rather see it be on streams like Manada and the Quittie than Letort/Spring/Slate etc.

 

[McSneek]

Swattie87 wrote:
As far as tackle restrictions go, the bait guys have one good argument in their favor..."FFerman can fish in every stream in the state, while we get shut out of some of the best trout water to FFO regs." If there needs to be a little give there, I'd rather see it be on streams like Manada and the Quittie than Letort/Spring/Slate etc.

This is a fallacy IMO. Most FFO stretches of streams I frequent are hardly what I would consider the best sections of that stream. Usually they've had a lot of work done to them by local TU chapters.

They might as well just issue you a debit card with your license purchase that can be swiped at certain grocery stores for a limit of fresh trout. That's what some of these people really want I think. You set up all these artificial regulations and delay harvest to extend fishing opportunities. Why allow harvest earlier than the current dates? Why is it so hard for the PAF&BC to tell those whiners to pick up a fly rod or a spinning rod with some rooster tails and fish those waters and try to take their three fish limit between the current harvest dates?

 

[willscreek]

The way I understand what happened on the DHALO section of Falling Spring is that it got that way because land owners were tired of all the litter bait fisherman were leaving behind such as empty worm tubs, or power bait jars and what not. After the regulations changed, the litter was reduced drastically. I guess some bait fisherman are upset that their license money goes to stocking trout they can't catch but what about the trout stocked in waters that warm beyond what they can handle? Stocking trout in marginal waters is a complaint of mine. My opinion is that the DHALO section of Falling Spring should be stocked with fingerlings.

 

[Mike]

I am pleased to see that in the discussion above you are keeping the two issues separate......the movement of the harvest period from June 15 back to Memorial Day weekend and the allowance of bait angling. You may recall that we previously discussed the Memorial Day idea perhaps a year ago on this Board.

To my knowledge, speculation in the discussion above that any part of this proposal came from bait anglers is incorrect. It is as described, a proposal to get more trout removed from the DH areas before they warm. There is no hidden agenda here and this certainly has nothing to do with license sales.

Incidentally, a "second opening day" like atmosphere was predicted by a segment (the overreacting segment) of the fly angling community when the presently existing June 15 opener to harvest by lure and fly fishermen was established as part of the overall DH reg package. It never materialized. In fact, in my SE Pa experience, one is hard pressed to notice any difference in angling pressure on June 15 from that which occurs on June 14. My colleagues and I have made it a point to be there on June 15 at times.

I'll add that it is important to keep in mind that the proposal, as I understood it a few weeks ago, kept the 3 fish creel limit intact, which limits the interest in some angler's participation in such fisheries (those interested in a higher harvest).

 

[Foxgap239]

I would have to agree with Mike using my own non-scientific observations. I have never seen any discernable difference in fishing pressure from June 14th to the 15th. In fact in my observations , fishing pretty much dies off on put and take streams about 2 to 3 weeks after opening day and I don't think June 15th sparks that much interest. Take this year for example, do you think if temps and precip remain the way they have this year that any fish will be alive in those streams by June 15th? I sure don't know but I suspect not many.

 

[Swattie87]

Mike wrote:
In fact, in my SE Pa experience, one is hard pressed to notice any difference in angling pressure on June 15 from that which occurs on June 14.

I agree with this too. IMO traffic peaks on DHALO's (as they are currently regulated) for a week or two immediately following the stockings. Especially the first Spring stocking (usually when ATW's are closed in March) and the Fall stocking (when ATW's are usually depleted of trout from the previous Spring).

I think the change in dates to allow harvest starting Memorial Day weekend is of little material difference in terms of the angling experience on these streams at that time of year. Often you have to be very careful playing and landing a fish if you intend to release it. By this time of year, I'm either in small, cold wild streams, or WW fishing if flows allow it. If the date change means more of the fish are caught and enjoyed (either for food, sport, or both), and less end up floating downstream, I don't have an issue with it.

 

[mike_richardson]

A step in the right direction. I believe in the equal access for all mentality how ever. BUT...

I think that the landowners should be taken into account on this as well though. Many of these streams were put under these restrictions because of people getting tired of all of the trash and things like this. I would rather these streams remain open than posted entirely.

I don't like the idea of segregating a stream and stocking it just as much as a non special reg stream.

I support the Traditional Anglers in their efforts.

 

[pcray1231]

Continuing to keep the matters separate, I have no issue with moving the date up. As was said, it's not exactly like anglers line up to harvest their trout on June 15. What makes you think that moving it up a few weeks will change that? Saying they're creating a new opening day is just hogwash.

As for the bait allowed, I'm opposed but not strongly so. The purpose of these fisheries is to extend the time period of which stocked trout are plentiful. The bait guys are not barred, they are perfectly welcome to throw a rooster tail on, or fish nymphs, fake eggs, rubber minnies, and the like. I did it all the time when I was a spin fisher. They don't have to learn fly gear or anything like that.

Really, I'd be ok with doing away with FFO, make those areas ALO C&R and leave it at that. Specify single hooks if you're concerned about mortality do to treble hooks.

I don't understand the PFBC idea that a fish is worthless unless its harvested. I mean, I have no real problem with harvesting of trout, but it's not central to the sport. People fish for enjoyment. If it weren't so, they'd go get some rainbow trout from the grocery store. The value of a fish is in being caught, it's a sport, and the PFBC is in the leisure business, not the food supply business. If a fish gets caught 3 or 4 times, released each time, and ends up dying from warm water, then that fish was still MORE valuable than a trout that's caught once and kept.

 

[mike_richardson]

I appologize for my strong views on this topic. I must have it be known i am highly active in T.A.P (Traditional Anglers of Pennsylvania) My uncles are the founding faters of this and I will be looking forward to carrying on this club.

I am one of the very few fly fisherman in this club. It is weird that as many of the members on this forum are unhappy with these changes i am rejoicing. LOL

I had to let that be known and i will not get fired up at opposing views. well as best i can. Good luck to all going out this weekend.

 

[Swattie87]

pcray1231 wrote:
I don't understand the PFBC idea that a fish is worthless unless its harvested.

I'm not 100% sure that is the PFBC's outlook on this issue. I think leaving the DHALO regs as they are in the Spring and Fall goes to show they are aware of a fish's sport value, and the opportunity for it to be caught more than once. By allowing bait during the Summer months, and moving the harvest opener up a couple of weeks I think the idea is simply to maximize the fish's value as a resoure. It is at this time (early June) that the fish's value from a sporting perspective in these streams begins to decline most years, as it begins to suffer the effects of the warmer water. If from June through August, the fish was only going to be caught one more time anyway, might as well be by someone who will enjoy eating it IMO.

Obviously there are exceptions to this, but as a general rule, I think it holds true...the C&R capability of trout in these streams is greatly reduced during Summer. For the DHALO's out there that can successfully hold over fish, and provide a quality Summer trout fishery, then perhaps full C&R regs are more appropriate for those waters.

 

[bigjohn58]

So what about areas like the Narrows on Fishing Creek that are not stocked but yet have delayed harvest sections? There are no stocked trout and water temps are never an issue. I thought these delayed harvest areas were labled that because water temps were not really an issue and they could support trout year round? Think about things though...Spring Creek in Centre County you can bait fish and look at that stream...maybe its not even that big of a deal.