PFBC on Stocking over Wild Fish

[greenghost]

Here's a read on the Commissions position on stocking over wild fish -- which is really a lack of a position.

Also, read the sidebar article on the next Fish Commission meeting, in September, being held at Nemacolin Woodlands in SW PA. Highlighted topic will be what to do with the Yough to make it better! I am definitely going to that meeting.

 

[MKern]

If they know they are going to catch flack either way, why not side with the trout?

 

[NickR]

I was at the last meeting... I bet if 9-10 catch and release wild trout anglers show up it would seem like a mob and PFBC would probably side with them. ONE PERSON showed up at the last meeting and he looked to be about 75 years old. Food for thought...9 catch and release carp anglers from both fly and bait circles showed up to advocate for carp fishing. PFBC commented on how they appreciated how young all the carp anglers were and how fly and bait guys were working towards the same goals. I will be at the meeting in September because there are certain streams like Penn's, Monocacy, Martin's Creek and a few others that should not be stocked and those fish should be allocated to other streams that don't support any wild trout. Seems so wasteful and unfair to stock trout in streams that already have them.

 

[Van_Cleaver]

Apparently you need a unnatural disaster like a Kepone (or similar) spill to turn the tables. Spring and Valley Creek (Chester Co.) jump out as two models of stream bred trout streams that have turned into awesome fisheries since the cessation of stocking due to misfortune. Yes, they are both limestone base but still. I can only imagine how good the Little Lehigh could become. Of course the short term license sales would suffer, but long term more anglers would come from other states to fish for wild fish bringing in more revenue. Hard to get away from tradition, but if you look at the numbers I'd be shocked if resident sales are doing anything but dropping anyway.

 

[NickR]

When people want to catch "trout" they go to Montana. Montana doesn't stock trout. PA is great for trout fishing but could be so much better without stocking.

 

[Bonzoso]

FYI, Montana does stock trout. Just want to make things clear.

 

[NickR]

I stand corrected... should have been clearer myself. I believe that Montana is one of the only states that does not stock moving water. Pretty much all of their trout stocking happens in reservoirs and the like.

 

[raftman]

Montana does not stock over wild trout populations... http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2004/DickVincent.htm

 

[mr7183]

Which stream do you all think is the most mismanaged (for a lack of a better word) in PA? Meaning the PFBC is stocking over wilds, doesn't have appropriate regulations, or, in your opinion, is missing the opportunity to create a world class tailwater.

I'm no expert, but I'd have to think we could have more Spring, Penns, or Delaware quality fisheries with thoughtful management by the PFBC.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

mr7183 wrote:
Which stream do you all think is the most mismanaged (for a lack of a better word) in PA? Meaning the PFBC is stocking over wilds, doesn't have appropriate regulations, or, in your opinion, is missing the opportunity to create a world class tailwater.

Pohopoco Creek in Carbon County gets my vote.

Rip out the Parryville dam, manage the flows from Beltzville dam to be "fish friendly", make the whole stream below the dam C&R, and quit stocking it completely. With some access easements, you'd have a tremendous, self sustaining resource that would be a real boost for the local economy. And it'd hardly cost anything to do.

Am I the only one that sees a lost opportunity there? :roll:

 

[Fredrick]

Seen this and thought of this tread .
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2004/DickVincent.htm

Oops seen that the link was already posted

 

[NickR]

+1 on the Pohopoco. Another local creek that doesn't need to be stocked is Hay Creek. It is a class A but the wild fish don't really seem to be given the opportunity to grow to any size even though I have caught some decent wild browns in the stream up to 18 inches...it could be much better. The stockings seem to draw the worst from the put and take crowd for about a month and half and than it all but dies. Last I heard the park in town even holds a trout rodeo where they do all kinds of fun stuff like put Bobcats in the water and create rock dams and disturb the streambed.

 

[afishinado]

Heritage-Angler wrote:

mr7183 wrote:
Which stream do you all think is the most mismanaged (for a lack of a better word) in PA? Meaning the PFBC is stocking over wilds, doesn't have appropriate regulations, or, in your opinion, is missing the opportunity to create a world class tailwater.

Pohopoco Creek in Carbon County gets my vote.

Rip out the Parryville dam, manage the flows from Beltzville dam to be "fish friendly", make the whole stream below the dam C&R, and quit stocking it completely. With some access easements, you'd have a tremendous, self sustaining resource that would be a real boost for the local economy. And it'd hardly cost anything to do.

Am I the only one that sees a lost opportunity there? :roll:

++ to that. And like you posted, very little cost involved In fact a savings in the long run given the cost of stocked fish. Also, there can be no doubt about the Po's viability to produce and hold wild fish since they thrive there right now. Finally, removing the Parryville dam would allow fish to move up and down into the Lehigh River.

While modifying the FEW dam to enhance the Lehigh is a huge project, this one, although a lot smaller in scope, is doable on all counts right now.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I had no idea about this meeting. If the next one is in September, we need to mob it.

The thing that I hear constantly is that what worked for Montana won't work for us. That's only 'cause we don't have leadership with the balls to do what is right for wild trout.

Someone on FB said this. If its about license sales, so what? We continue to stock over wild populations (not just Class A) and license sales are still going down. We might as well start doing what's right for the fish. It's not like we'll be threatening an upward trend in sales.

 

[ebroesicke]

For the sake of discussion...You mentioned the Monocacy, which is my "home" stream. I fish it pretty regularly, and it is my limited observation that there are more wild fish in the stocked section than there are the Trophy Trout section, which is somewhat confirmed by the fact that it qualifies as Class A, even though it is not listed that way. How much better could it get if stocking was stopped? It can only support a finite number of fish. In my estimation, stocking in that section ( from Illick's Mill down) hasn't really hurt the fishing at all. I also believe that there are some studies out there indicating that stocking over wild fish does little to impact the wild population. Not sure about that though. I guess my ultimate point is that it is easy to point the finger at one issue ( stocking) when the reality may in-fact be much more complicated. Habitat, pollution, runoff, temperature etc, may or may not play as much or more of a role in trout populations.

 

[NickR]

^^^
PFBC's policy is "no stocking of class A streams". Why are class A's being stocked still? Your answer is license sales... has nothing to do with pollution, runoff, temperature etc...

Just doesn't seem fair that stocked fish are going to streams with already abundant numbers of wild fish when they could be going to marginal streams where trout fishing opportunities are limited.

Your observation of Monocacy having more wild trout in the stocked section than others is exactly why it shouldn't be stocked.

 

[ebroesicke]

Nick-

Yes I agree that if a stream is Class A, which by definition means it has enough fish to support fishing, it shouldn't be stocked according to the policy. The answer as to why, is of course license sales. Those fish would probably be better served in marginal streams, flooded tennis courts, canals, etc.... agreed.

I was merely trying to point out that it is possible that stocking over wild fish may or may not be detrimental to wild fish in and of itself.

As to my example of the Monocacy, and I am not speaking to any other situations, I personally like the proposal by PFBC to stock pre- season only and list as Class A. It is a good compromise as opposed to just not listing it because it would tick some people off.

 

[NickR]

Also, doesn't it seem wasteful to take money and pay biologists to shock and perform studies on streams then completely ignore the class A stats? Why even have biologists or have them do studies if were just going to make decisions based on license sales? Seems counterproductive to me.

I hear you on the part about not ticking people off but at this point license sales are way down... perhaps treating wild fish like a valuable resource might get more people to also do the same. I'd think a little bit of that mentality might roll downhill from PFBC to some of the common folk.

 

[Zak]

Doesn't Montana have a 'Right to Wade' law though. Meaning as long as you can legally access the stream without traspassing you can legally fish any stream below the high water mark. A law like that COMPLETELY changes the game on what you can/should do with stocking in some cases. Take a stream like Martins for example. You take stocking off the table there and I already know that several large chunks are going to be closed quickly. It's already happening on the upper stream where 2 decent portions are now posted since they stopped stocking. What's worse??? Personally, I'd rather supress the wild fish a little and at least be able to fish there then drive by every day knowing there are tons of wild trout but wishing I could fish for them.

The Po is a no brainer. Getting ACE to listen is a whole other story. It always seems like they are listening but then the stream goes from 400 cfs to 40 cfs in 5 minutes and then 2 days later back to 400 cfs while your knee deep in it.

 

[Zak]

I also like the preseason compromise on certain streams. On public land where landowners aren't in play just stop the stocking but it's not worth losing access over. Stock it once pre season and that's that.