PFBC Meeting

[TimRobinsin]

tomorrow will be the PFBC quarterly meeting where the commission will be listening to public comment about proposed rule and regulation changes. I will be there with a group from our TU chapter and I will also be delivering comment from the Chesapeake council of the IFFF.

If you can make it out please do. the meeting begins at 2pm in the susquehanna room.

here is an interesting article from the post gazette on one of the issues being commented on:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/outdoors/2015/01/18/Anglers-commissioners-debate-stocking-over-native-trout-protecting-clean-waters-from-industrial-impacts/stories/201501180140

 

[krayfish2]

First, Susquehanna room where?

Second, during work hours so I have no chance of making it. I know it has nothing to do with this topic but can you ask them 2 questions?

1. What's going on with these tailwater projects
2. Why don't they reply to emails submitted

 

[SBecker]

krayfish2

1. What's going on with these tailwater projects

Well they are going to keep stocking the Po. There is your tailwater initiative. Lol

 

[troutbert]

The Post-Gazette article tries to link 2 totally unrelated topics:

1) The designation of those 9 streams as Class A, but continuing to stock them, and the related proposal to allow other Class A streams to be stocked in the future, with just the approval of the ED and Commissioners.

2) The surveying of previously un-assessed waters, particularly in the Marcellus shale region, to see if they have wild trout populations.


From the article:
-------------------------------------------------------
At least three of the 10 streams PFBC is considering for Class A designation lie outside the perimeter of the Marcellus Shale formation in central and northern Pennsylvania, a fact that may have made PFBC willing to absorb the criticism it attracted in the no-stocking turmoil that accompanied the proposed Class A designations.

"Since the inception of shale gas development, we've seen activity with the potential to impact wild trout resources in remote areas and on a scale we'd never seen before," said John Arway, Fish and Boat Commission executive director. "The Marcellus industry has advocated that we assess trout streams where they might operate and know what's there so they can design their activities around what we need to protect."
------------------------------------------------------------

This is written as if there is some connection between the topics. But there isn't any. They are two totally separate topics.

So if you are planning to talk at the meeting, don't be confused by that article. Don't start mixing in talk about the unassessed waters program and Marcellus stuff with the Class A proposals.

 

[TimRobinsin]

not to sound smart but if there is a currently stocked stream in the marcellus region that currently has the equivalent of a class A wild trout population that the PFBC is unaware of, would that not be considered un-assessed? are we strictly talking about waters that have never been assessed for wild trout pop or never assessed ever?

also, does anybody else find assessed to be a funny word? how many freakin ss's doe you need!?...seessssh

 

[TimRobinsin]

so after I read the IFFF statement I hope I can get back up to read my personal testimony. if not and I get kicked out here's what I would have said:

***

Thank you for hearing my comments today. My story into angling in Pennsylvania starts not unlike many others in that my grandfather would take my brother and I along with our uncles out to his special spot on his favorite trout stream.

The little Conestoga (as I am sure you are aware) is a well-known stocked trout fishery in Lancaster county that is not capable of sustaining year round populations of trout for various reasons. I remember my grandfather’s excitement, as we would head out on opening weekend. It was an excitement that I never learned to share, as it was my annual experience that it was a bunch of grumpy old men throwing corn and worms at the same pod of scared fish. If this was fishing, I wanted no parts of it.

It was not until my early twenties that I fell in love with fishing and understood why my grandfather loved it so much as well. It was at that time that my best friend taught me fly fishing on some of our state’s famous DHALO and special regulation waters including Lititz Run, Donegal Spring Run, Tulpehocken Creek, Kettle Creek and Pine Creek. My experiences on these waters showed me the true potential fishing has to offer in our state. It wasn’t a crowded bank lined with fat dudes in folding chairs and stringers, it was endless miles of water all to myself to lose myself in. It changed me from the common man to an uncommon man as I understood the value of fishing and our commonwealth’s potential. Years later my mother would tell me how proud my Pap would be if he knew I took up fly-fishing. Many of the waters I went to all around the state with my best friend were also waters he loved. I know now why.

I urge you to carefully re-evaluate the proposed changes to the DHALO regulations. Degrading the current standards will only serve to depreciate these special areas and will reduce the positive impact and reach these legendary waters already have here and abroad. By moving our state forward towards more conservative and practical management strategies such as the DHALO program we can fully recognize the potential of our great cold-water resource.

The special regulations this commonwealth has pioneered changed me from the modern day common man who could have cared less about fishing into the uncommon man who now stands before you as not only an angler but also a licensed guide (imagine that!) and now advocates for their protection.

Thank you for your time and consideration.


***

The only reason I threw in that bit at the end is because it still amazes me that I went from a kid who could have cared less about fishing to a dude that wants to share it with others. not tooting my own horn, tooting our state horn because we really do have some awesome water that is worth protecting.

 

[troutbert]

TimRobinsin wrote:

are we strictly talking about waters that have never been assessed for wild trout pop or never assessed ever?

Yes. The un-assessed waters initiative is all about surveying streams that have never been surveyed before, to determine if the streams support a wild trout population or not.

 

[TimRobinsin]

thanks D. I get confused easily

 

[TimRobinsin]

I revised it:

Derek Eberly
Keystone Fly Guides


Thank you for hearing my comments today. My story into angling in Pennsylvania starts not unlike many others in that my grandfather would take my brother and I along with our uncles out to his special spot on his favorite trout stream.

The little Conestoga (as I am sure you are aware) is a well-known stocked trout fishery in Lancaster county that is not capable of sustaining year round populations of trout for various reasons. I remember my grandfather’s excitement, as we would head out on opening weekend. It was an excitement that I never learned to share, as it was my annual experience that it was a bunch of grumpy old men throwing corn and worms at the same pod of scared fish. If this was fishing, I wanted no parts of it.

It was not until my early twenties that I fell in love with fishing and understood why my grandfather loved it so much as well. It was at that time that my best friend taught me fly fishing on some of our state’s famous DHALO and special regulation waters including Lititz Run, Donegal Spring Run, Tulpehocken Creek, Kettle Creek and Pine Creek. My experiences on these waters showed me the true potential fishing has to offer in our state. It wasn’t a crowded bank lined with dudes, folding chairs and stringers. It was endless miles of un-crowded/uncommon water to lose myself in. It changed me from the common man to an uncommon man, as I understood the value of fishing and our commonwealth’s potential. Years later my mother would tell me how proud my Pap would be if he knew I took up fly-fishing. Many of the waters I went to all around the state with my best friend were also waters he loved. I know now why.

I urge you to carefully re-evaluate the proposed changes to the DHALO regulations. Degrading the current standards will only serve to depreciate these special areas and will reduce the positive impact and reach these legendary waters already have here and abroad. By moving our state forward towards more conservative and practical management strategies such as the DHALO program we can fully recognize the potential of our great cold-water resource.

The special regulations this commonwealth has pioneered changed me from the modern day common man who could have cared less about fishing into the uncommon man who now stands before you as not only an angler but also a licensed guide (imagine that!) and now advocates for their protection.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

[troutbert]

IMHO, keep it very concise (short). And keep it very much on topic, to the point.

They're proposing changes to the DH areas. That's the topic, stick to it.

Since you are against the proposed changes, your job is to convince them that the proposed changes will have negative results, and that the current rules are better and should be kept.

Explain how the current rules are creating good fishing for lots of happy anglers. And how the proposed changes might damage that situation. Explain what negative effects you expect to occur from the proposed changes.

That's it. Cut out everything else. Cut out the life story stuff, it's off topic. And eliminate any suggestion that flyfishers are better than other fishermen.

 

[TimRobinsin]

I thought the life story demonstrated the importance of DHALO. I never would have gotten into this sport if it were not for special regs. who wants to fish open water? that was the point I guess I failed to make.

Special regs may get more people back into fishing. the kind of people who think of fishing with the same stigma that I did.

then again, what do I know, just a dumb kid from the suburbs

 

[troutbert]

They are not proposing eliminating DH areas or other special regs areas. They are proposing certain changes to DH areas.

So, you have to convince them that those changes will cause harmful outcomes that outweigh whatever gains they hope to achieve.

You have to be very specific, giving details on what negative things you expect to happen if the proposed changes are passed.

 

[OldLefty]

Derek:

Dwight has provided you very good advice.

Briefly relate why you value the regs. and then explain why you feel the proposed changes would have a negative impact.

Be aware that your revealing you are a fly fishing guide may give the (erroneous, we hope) impression you have an ulterior (translate selfish) motive for your opposition to the proposed changes. Some folks assume that the mere fact that you are a ff'er you have a "holier than thou" attitude. It''s just a fact of life.

I found a long time ago that the less attention you draw to the "me" the better off you'll be.

 

[McSneek]

Tim aka Derek - Some constructive criticism first:

1. I would have left it as fat dudes. 🙂

2. Lititz Run is famous? :-o Maybe I better walk over there and fish it one of these days.

All kidding aside, I'm right with you in terms of how you define "value" in your present day fishing experiences. I fear though that the "utilization-minded" PFBC still sees that bank lined with dudes in lawn chairs (all shapes and sizes) as what they're here to provide to the angling public.

 

[Chaz]

The article is inaccurate, PFBC never proposed to stop stocking the 10 designated streams. What they proposed, based on angler surveys was to stock these streams once a season, either once pre-season with adult trout, or some other method. I thought at the time the measure was a compromise, given the usage of those streams, they are all in the 75 percentile of stream usage.
The importance of the Class A status is a big deal, it give a much higher protection of use to streams classified thus.
I just wish the people that write this stuff actually got things right, whatever happened to the idea of a editor or someone else checking the facts.

 

[TimRobinsin]

you are right chaz. ouch, that hurt...just kidding chaz.

your point is very important and is a good reminder why you can't believe everything you read. not here, not anywhere.

I am happy to report that there was a terrific turnout at the meeting in support of wild trout protections. Many representatives both individuals, clubs and organizations shared their concerns.

The message has been sent and received. We must now wait to see how they respond.

 

[DaveKile]

Just released:

Commissioners Propose Delayed Harvest
Changes to Attract Youth Anglers

HARRISBURG, Pa. (Jan. 22) – Anglers who enjoy fishing in Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only (DHALO) areas would have several additional weeks to keep their catch and would be allowed to use bait during the harvest period, under a proposal advanced today by the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) at its quarterly business meeting.

In addition, kids under the age of 16 would be allowed to use bait year-round in these areas.

“This is about creating more opportunities for anglers of all ages to fish and making it easier to fish by simplifying regulations,” said PFBC Executive Director John Arway. “The DHALO program is one of our most popular because it extends the traditional trout season. Today’s proposal should encourage more anglers, especially kids, to fish these areas and will make it easier for families to fish together.”

First launched in 1983, the DHALO program is designed to make more stocked trout available later in the season. The current regulations allow harvest only between June 15 and Labor Day, have a minimum size limit of nine inches, and a creel limit of three fish. The waters are open to fishing year-round.

Under today’s proposal, the harvest period would be moved to the Saturday before Memorial Day, the minimum size would be lowered to seven inches, and anglers could use bait or artificial lures during the harvest period. The creel limit would remain at three fish.

“Anglers are most interested in fishing for stocked trout in late May and early June,” added Arway. “By expanding the harvest period and allowing the use of bait, we can increase angler success while improving the use of the trout before they are lost to natural mortality in the warmer summer months.”

Arway added that allowing kids to use bait year-round in DHALO areas makes sense because most children learn to fish with bait before advancing to fishing with flies or artificial lures.

“By allowing kids to use bait year-round in these areas, we would be making it easier for them to fish and would be increasing their chances of catching fish,” he said. “This would create a positive experience which in turn would increase their enthusiasm and passion for the sport.”

The proposed changes will be published as a notice of proposed rulemaking in the PA Bulletin for a 60-day public comment period. If adopted on a final rulemaking, the amendments would take effect on Jan. 1, 2016.

In other action, commissioners:
Added 10 stream sections to the list of Class A wild trout streams, and voted to continue stocking the stream sections, all of which receive high levels of angler use. The stream sections can be viewed on the PFBC website under exhibits G and H.
Approved the designation of a 2.8 mile section of Pine Creek in Lycoming County, from the confluence of Slate Run downstream to the confluence of Bonnell Run, as a Catch and Release All-Tackle Area. The area is currently designated as a Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only area. The changes will take effect upon publication in the PA Bulletin.

 

[SBecker]

Awesome

 

[McSneek]

“Anglers are most interested in fishing for stocked trout in late May and early June,” added Arway. “By expanding the harvest period and allowing the use of bait, we can increase angler success while improving the use of the trout before they are lost to natural mortality in the warmer summer months.”

Arway added that allowing kids to use bait year-round in DHALO areas makes sense because most children learn to fish with bait before advancing to fishing with flies or artificial lures.

“By allowing kids to use bait year-round in these areas, we would be making it easier for them to fish and would be increasing their chances of catching fish,” he said. “This would create a positive experience which in turn would increase their enthusiasm and passion for the sport.”

FINALLY! An effective plan to UTILIZE these fish! I only wish I was 15 years old again.

But it's for the kids!

 

[tomitrout]

Added 10 stream sections to the list of Class A wild trout streams, and voted to continue stocking the stream sections, all of which receive high levels of angler use. The stream sections can be viewed on the PFBC website under exhibits G and H.

ok, so what did they decide about future stocking on other Class A waters? Are they glossing over that decision or kick that can down the road?? Didn't see any other mention of stocking Classs A's...